I dunno if anyone has heard of this, prolly has I think, but since nobody's mentioned it, I figured it ought to be brought up. There's a furor over the net with regard to this -
http://forums.creative.com/creativel...read.id=116332
Apparently, they've served Daniel_K with a cease and desist order and do not want him to mod their drivers anymore......pretty interesting stuff with >1000 angry replies in that thread.:eek:
I completely support creative ...
Its good someone is providing driver support. They clearly state they DONT have a problem with this.Quote:
We are aware that you have been assisting owners of our Creative sound cards for some time now, by providing unofficial driver packages for Vista that deliver more of the original functionality that was found in the equivalent XP packages for those sound cards. In principle we don't have a problem with you helping users in this way, so long as they understand that any driver packages you supply are not supported by Creative.
Where we do have a problem is when technology and IP owned by Creative or other companies that Creative has licensed from, are made to run on other products for which they are not intended.
Its quite understandable however they want people to be aware these drivers havnt been created or are supported by creative to safeguard themselves from possible lawsuits .....
And its completely acceptable that they dont want them being used on products that arent creative's. That means they dont just get stupid user lawsuits but multi-million company lawsuits ....
Then creative goes bankrupt and those stupid whining b*tches wont have ANY support whatsoever ....
You see, this is what happens when dumbasses are allowed to have opinions, let alone post them ....
But what I don't get is this -
With WinXP, I believe X-Fi cards have DDL and DTS decoder functionality, right? Why is it that with Creative very own Vista driver, this does not work. I just tried Daniel_K's driver and I'm surprised that the DD/DTS decoder works......why couldn't Creative have done this themselves?
Edit - IIRC, when I'd gotten my X-Fi's, it was clearly stated on the boxes 'built-in decoding' (or something to this effect), that's one of the features I'd bought the card for. Does Creative have the right to unilaterally NOT enable it for Vista in the first place?
No arguements there .....
Alot of companies and microsoft themselves have problems with driver support for vista. Some of it to be expected although the whole process hasnt been eased by microsoft as during development their co-operation with OEM's was less than helpful ....
I dont know why but quite possibly creative didnt want certain decoders to be functional within vista.
If however it states on the box the decoder should work within vista then its lawsuit time ;)
I don't know anything about this guy or the drivers. But if he's good, why wouldn't creative hire him.
Because Creative is a **** company that prides themselves on having the worst driver support in the industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by PriMaTe
I gave up on Creative and their ******** years ago.
I'd heard of his drivers before, but didn't feel a need to try 'em out coz I was waiting patiently for Creative to release the driver that would enabled DD/DTS decoding........and this was when Vista was just released. Even now, after a year, Creative hasn't delivered on that yet. Daniel_K's driver, aka kX driver, have been circulating for a while......it amazes me that this lone modder has done something that Creative can't, or won't, do.:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by PriMaTe
Still running my old soundcard, never bothered upgrading to xfi.
Worst company ever to have a monopoly.
Learux
If you want the unofficial bs-corporate answer (from what I understand), it's because of copy-protection issues. Because the movie companies are insisting on a "secure channel" from the disc that is inserted, all the way through the output to the monitors and the speakers, Microsoft and hardware manufacturers have been playing it careful with everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeysg
So the reason they've delayed it is probably because they haven't found a way to secure the decoded output from the soundcard. (I.e. Suddenly, all of those DVD/HD rips would have beautiful surround tracks to go with them.)
I don't know if that's the real reason or not, but considering how much I've been reading on how hardware companies are trying to secure the "playback path", it would make sense.
long story short
Creative is too lazy to write proper drivers for Vista. Some guy decided to take the initiative and help the community out by writing better himself and now Creative is threatening him.
Community outrage.
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...driver-debacle
according to a comment/post.
Newegg got 5000+ RMA for creative cards after the news broke out and they pull Creative Cards from their site.
I was kinda pissed off at creative a few years back when I was trying to get drivers for one of my Creative card (don't remember which model)
I downloaded the driver and upon installation it asked me for THE DRIVER CD?! WTflock?! who would a driver install need me to have the CD?!
I though it was the wrong driver or something and I redownloaded and reinstall .. same thing.
I looked at the site more closely and they wanted like $16 for a replacement CD. I have to go down to my basement and craw into my the dirty storage hole where I keep my old boxes to get the CD out.. boy was I pissed off. I lost alot of respect for them after that and haven't been keeping up.
but now after reading that article it seems they are more pucked up than I though.
I've been a long time customer of their for a long time. but after this revelation I will not be buying their products again.
That's pretty typical of Creative. Seems like I abandoned Creative back in 1996, when I discovered after owning two different soundcards, 99% of drive conflicts and resourse management problems I experienced were caused by my Soundblasters. So I've gone with other alternatives since, which is too bad because I've always liked their hardware, but the effort to get it to work was just not worth it.
Customer support has never been Creative's strong point, or a point at all really.
yep I've always hated creative
Wow, this is the first I've heard of this. I'm using Vista x64 w/4GB of ram with an X-Fi XtremeMusic and have no driver problems at all.
What functionality is missing from Vista drivers that XP had? I just went through the whole upgrade a month ago and don't notice anything major, other than 6.1 support is missing.
One user also stated that the alchemy software isn't free? I d/led it from creative (i think) for free and it works fine.
Maybe I'm just a rare lucky user? :confused:
heres some more crap I dug up: (I can't say if it true or not but this scares me on how deceptive their practices are)
one example. when I bought my X-Fi Extreme gamer card. I have to do 2+ HOURS of research before placing my order..Quote:
The original SoundBlaster was basically a copy of the Adlib (a soundcard by a small American company) with digital output tacked on. Problem was the implementation was so broken it was impossible to play back audio without crackles and pops.
The Soundblaster pro was better, but that's not saying a lot. The fact that the follow up - the Sound Blaster 16 - was NOT Sound Blaster Pro compatible is a clear indication how murky the SB Pro's underpinnings actually were.
Speaking about the SoundBlaster 16. Despite what you may believe the SB16 is NOT a 16-Bit soundcard. It can indeed play back 16-Bit samples, but the drivers simply down converts them to 12-bits.
The AWE was better but it was basically what the SB16 should have been and the competition by this time made the AWE look silly - and that is not mentioning the rather dishonest 64 simultaneous channels claim their marketing department threw about.
Creative's first attempt at a PCI soundcard turned out so murky that 1997 era mobos have something called a "SoundBlaster link" to make them happy. Finally giving up Creative bought another company that had made a PCI soundcard and slapped the SoundBlaster brand on it. (SoundBlaster 16 PCI .. or SoundBlaster 512, they had many names for it).
The SoundBlaster Live! was not PCI 2.1 complainant. If you somehow didn't know that you had to turn off PCI delayed transactions in the BIOS you would get blue screens every now and then. It also caused disk corruption on Via chipsets. Fun fun fun.
Since then the Live has been rebranded several times. They even spewed out a SoundBlaster Live 24-Bit that did the old SoundBlaster 16-Bit down sampling trick. How nice of them.
The SoundBlaster X-Fi is much nicer than the Live and the Soundcard I'm currently listening to. But beware, Creative is up to their old tricks even here. They talk a lot about their 24-Bit Crysalizer - for instance - but it is actually a 24-Bit Compressor similar to the 16-Bit compressors used by CD mastering studios. Like any audiophile can tell you a compressor helps cheepo speakers by making the sound a little more vivid and louder, at the cost of less fidelity on high end equipment.
Also note that the SoundBlaster X-Fi PCIe Xtreme Audio is not an X-Fi but a good 'ol SoundBlaster Live! in new clothes!
why u ask? I found out that some of their "Xi-Fi" models are actually rebranded Audigy models.. (I think it was someone here at SE that orginally warned me of this) and I have to MAKE SURE that that model card I'm getting is actually a "Xi-Fi" chipset.
Come to think of it. that was the FIRST and ONLY time. I have to do research on something to make sure I get what I'm paying for.. (Imagine placing an order for a C2D and having to makre sure you are not getting a older dual core.. )
What the guy I quoted said about the SB16 and AWE64. I actually bought those card. the AWE64 I paid 232$ for it after tax back around 1998. I guess I fell for their marketing (there were no internet like now to do research on)
What a SHNIT LOAD OF FLUCK!!
I"ve been a Creative customer since like 1988 when I got the SB Pro for my 286 16mhz PC. and I pretty much build system and recommend Creative sound cards exclusively. after reading these stories, I feel like I been molested at night in my sleep by them for years and only found out today.
they can go YANK their PENIS through their RECTUM.
I'm no longer going to buy any of their product ever again and advise my clients/customers to avoid their product...
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I'd like to hear some alternatives. I hate creative's driver support but who do you turn to?
is it just me or does it seem really weird that they're issuing a statement to him in a forum post? I have no problem with creative defending their properties but what I do have a problem with is 1 guy by himself is able to write a better driver with more functionality than the company who made the product...especially when that company has had a lot more time to develop the driver
I think it's with the Audigy line of sound cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyaxon
I would be pissed too if paid like $100 to $200 for those card and not have it work on Vista.
it's times like this that makes me miss Aureal even more. i remember getting the legendary Vortex 2. it absolutely took the soundblaster equivalent to the cleaners. quake 3 supported A3D and it was breath taking at the time. Aureal produced excellent drivers and weren't bloated like creative were.
however, creative didn't like aureal treading on their toes, so what can you do if your products can't beat them. beat them in the courtroom. Aureal ultimately won, but because the legal battle dragged on for so long, Aureal became bankrupt.
i'll never buy a creative product, like ever...
Crazy... I bought the Auzentech Prelude exclusively for my HTPC so that I could do DTS and DDL.
The X-Fi could do this all along but just didn't have the drivers for it?!?
Auzentech uses the X-Fi processor. They also write their own drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabby
Their last one gave it either DTS of DDL support... I can't remember which. The other one is in the works. They use to have an ETA for it on their site.
Alchemy for Vista is also a free download from their site.
I had an adlib sound card once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rimmerchant
Search function dude :p
http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?t=309098
As ive said before. I side completely with creative. Doesnt matter the good intent of the guy writing vista drivers, creative point out that they are not supported or authorised by creative. Also the guy writing these drivers is using intellectual property of creative and subsidiaries. This is opening creative up to lawsuits from users and other corporate bodies who dont even endorse what this person is doing.
Yes it would appear that creative driver support isnt all that good, but they wont have a business if they dont make this distinction clear ....
Creative's quality control is also pretty bad sometimes. I bought an SB Live Platinum back in the day, and it slowly died over a period of about 2 years. First one of the outputs went out, then another, then parts of the Live Drive died... it was a painfully slow process, eventually resulting a dead card. Unfortunately by the time I realized what was happening, it was far too late to RMA.
Like a moron, I eventually bought an Audigy 2, and it caused all sorts of system hangs. At first I thought it was the RAM or the power supply... but as soon as I took out the Audigy, everything was perfect. Crappy drivers get you every time. I was finally able to use it something like a year after I bought the thing, when decent drivers finally came out. I'm sure it's the same crap all over again for Vista, so I sympathize. Like others have said, Creative's hardware isn't too bad... too bad their drivers blow.
Still it's hard to support someone else writing them based on Creative's property. My solution is to just buy from some other company next time I'm in the market.
Adlib was the 1st soundcard that I ever owned. I was happy with it. But then they started to fall to the wayside and I ended up getting a SB16. Eventually went to the AWE32. Buth then:
It was all about Aureal's A3D 2.0. Back then I was under the impression that the best product always won the day. What a joke that was. How naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by EonX
Aureal was the shiznit. To this very day I think that the Vortex 2 is a superior soundcard. I still have one in my Win98SE system (which I also use for 3dfx games and my VFX3D virtual reality headset).
ID Software eventually dropped A3D 2.0 support from Quake 3. I heard it was because they couldn't get it to properly work with it. I own two copies of Quake 3... one with, and one without A3D support. Last I remembered, the one with A3D 2.0 support had support drop from the game randomly.
I remember reading that A3D 2.0 support was hard to program into games.
But... when it worked it was a thing of beauty.
I have a X-Fi Fatal1ty in my main gaming rig and a X-Fi based Auzentech Prelude on my HTPC. I only bought these because I had read somewhere that Creative had dusted off A3D 2.0 from exile and had at least partially implemented it in this new soundcard.
I had experienced Creative drivers being a PITA to install (one requiring like 3 seperate download for the Live)... but had never seen the system crashes that people talk about. I also did the bare minimum software install for Creative cards... drivers only.
Even though I have one Creative card... and another that uses their X-Fi chip... I have no love for that company.
This thread is also being discussed in the soundcard section.