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It seems like with Nvidia's buyout of 3dfx that we've got another Microshaft on our hands. Another huge company with little competition! Woohoo! They'll be able scale back their future graphics performance, increase their prices & produce products which meet minimal consumer demands.
I'm really hope that ATI has got some good technology for their next generation or we're going to be stuck with a single company in the 3d accelerator market.
-Bash
You know, you hit this one right on the head. I was gonna post this too, but dammit, you beat me to it. You suck. ;-)Quote:
Originally posted by Bash:
It seems like with Nvidia's buyout of 3dfx that we've got another Microshaft on our hands. Another huge company with little competition! Woohoo! They'll be able scale back their future graphics performance, increase their prices & produce products which meet minimal consumer demands.
I'm really hope that ATI has got some good technology for their next generation or we're going to be stuck with a single company in the 3d accelerator market.
-Bash
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Pat D.
Visit a music site I write for:
http://www.geocities.com/mjareviews
We got lots of Microsofts out there...the perhaps biggest GM or AT&T.
Also its funny to see the new X-Box and read about it cuz in all my magz I have it says X-Box now 250 Game Developers souls sold to microsoft and then in other articles it says microsoft is buying about half a dozen of the Developer's out one including a less then 1 year old BIG Games and there were two others mentioned that I forgot.
yeah, nvidia's recent actions have been quite monopolistic (is that a real word?)
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(jus chillin)ººo<º((^-{ --wait, i smell some fish....yum........
I like nVidia, and I still do. I don't think that they will start jacking up prices just because of 3dfx's demise. Think about it, computer nerds are picky, if a company starts overpricing a product, a new company will come along and offer a product of just as high quality. Just ask Intel https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/6.gif. Same thing with Microsoft. They used to be the only game in town, but now maverick operating systems like BeOS and Linux are becoming more and more popular. So I wouldn't worry about it. I think nVidia will still be pumping out great cards for fair prices, and if they don't, then another graphics company will come along soon enough.
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AMD Athlon Thunderbird 700
Abit KT7-RAID
Maxtor 20 GB
128 MB PC100
ATi Radeon 32 DDR
Sound Blaster Live! Value
Memorex 48x CD-ROM
Creative 56k PCI
Enlight 7237 300/W
~Wit and sarcasm are dangerous in the hands of a professional.
And don't forget that M$ bought Bungie, just to get its hands on Oni and Halo... those will probably only be X-Box titles.
Naw halo will go to pc, only after the xbox, by that time i fear that microsoft will ruin the entire game that bungie created.
This isn't software. You can't just write yourself a new graphics chip (well, actually, you can, but it's not like software). The thing is, it would take a team of 50 engineers 18 months to 2 years to come up with anything close to what nVidia or 3dfx have, and they would not have access to the IP that nVidia now has.Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Silver:
.....Same thing with Microsoft. They used to be the only game in town, but now maverick operating systems like BeOS and Linux are becoming more and more popular. So I wouldn't worry about it.
It's game over. There will only be one. ATI were really stupid to stand by and let this happen.
This is the end result of capitalism. It's a lie that capitalism provides competition. It, in truth, condones and breeds monopolies/oligopolies....Quote:
Originally posted by Snoop Dogg:
We got lots of Microsofts out there...the perhaps biggest GM or AT&T.
Also its funny to see the new X-Box and read about it cuz in all my magz I have it says X-Box now 250 Game Developers souls sold to microsoft and then in other articles it says microsoft is buying about half a dozen of the Developer's out one including a less then 1 year old BIG Games and there were two others mentioned that I forgot.
Wake up people and start believing in democratic socialism!
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Why use FSAA when wearing your grandma's glasses have the same effects?
no politics, please!
if u dislike, don't buy it.
simple, my next rig:
Athlon 133 FSB, 1GHz , DDR 266 (PC2100) 256MB
AMD 760 chipset
Radeon 32 DDR or Radeon 2 (if it comes out in time - not likely)
...
not soo good drivers? yeah, maybe, but i don't need PERFECT cards (GTS ain't perfect either) wanna have a decent one with potential.
wouldn't buy a P4 even if it performed 2 as fast as an Athlon (Rambus must ...)
THE DECISION IS YOURS, DUDES, don't forget that.
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No Pain, No Gain!
Oh, yes, politics. Anarchy reins!!!
Erm, *ahem* Anyway, I want NVidia to be smart about this. Make 3dfx a subdivision of NVidia... I think that could work good, and let the 3dfx team fo their thing in their part of the building. Let the products compete, and you'll rake in the cash from BOTH sides of the fence!
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P3 700 (cB0)
128 Meg Generic Ram
8meg ATI Rage Pro
SQ2500
M765vmrt mobo
IBM GXP 22gig
Dude, apparently you didn't read my entire post. Lemme give you an example, the comeback kid of hardware, AMD. I remember when the K62 just came out and everyone thought that Intel would crush AMD. Now the tables have turned, Intel is in a bad position and AMD has dominance in the market. Fact is, people won't stand for overpriced products. If nVidia starts raising prices, people won't buy. If ATi is smart, they'll take the route AMD took, and offer a product that's just as good as the leading company, for less. The Radeon is a great example!Quote:
Originally posted by SlartyB:
This isn't software. You can't just write yourself a new graphics chip (well, actually, you can, but it's not like software). The thing is, it would take a team of 50 engineers 18 months to 2 years to come up with anything close to what nVidia or 3dfx have, and they would not have access to the IP that nVidia now has.
It's game over. There will only be one. ATI were really stupid to stand by and let this happen.
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AMD Athlon Thunderbird 700
Abit KT7-RAID
Maxtor 20 GB
128 MB PC100
ATi Radeon 32 DDR
Sound Blaster Live! Value
Memorex 48x CD-ROM
Creative 56k PCI
Enlight 7237 300/W
~Wit and sarcasm are dangerous in the hands of a professional.
You are forgetting that AMD is a big company with many more markets than just the processor market. It could survive off all it's other business whilst it faught the big battle with Intel. ATI is not in that position. All of ATI's "eggs" are in one "basket" - graphics. It has no other business to fall back on. nVidia has already taken away a huge part of ATI's market share. Unless ATI diversifies into other markets - it won't be long before it goes under. Either way - it won't be able to sustain any real competition in the graphics market.Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Silver:
Dude, apparently you didn't read my entire post. Lemme give you an example, the comeback kid of hardware, AMD. I remember when the K62 just came out and everyone thought that Intel would crush AMD. Now the tables have turned, Intel is in a bad position and AMD has dominance in the market. Fact is, people won't stand for overpriced products. If nVidia starts raising prices, people won't buy. If ATi is smart, they'll take the route AMD took, and offer a product that's just as good as the leading company, for less. The Radeon is a great example!
why not?Quote:
Originally posted by SlartyB:
You are forgetting that AMD is a big company with many more markets than just the processor market. It could survive off all it's other business whilst it faught the big battle with Intel. ATI is not in that position. All of ATI's "eggs" are in one "basket" - graphics. It has no other business to fall back on. nVidia has already taken away a huge part of ATI's market share. Unless ATI diversifies into other markets - it won't be long before it goes under. Either way - it won't be able to sustain any real competition in the graphics market.
the Radeon was quite an unexpected release, if they're smart they should be able to handle it.
why do u think, resistance against nVidia is futile? remember the G400? it was faster than the TNT2, and Matrox is a small company!
win2K drivers are not everything.
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No Pain, No Gain!
I beg to differ, AMD has all of their eggs in one basket as well. Their CPU division is the bread-and-butter of the company. If AMD's CPUs die, then the company will die as well. Back to the main topic though, I still don't understand why so many people are thinking that the golden age of 3d accelerators are over. I agree that competition is a healthy thing, but ATi and Matrox have more than enough power to thwart nVidia. Matrox easily dominates the business market, while ATi can give the big N a run for it's money in the gaming end. Have some faith in ATi, they may be the underdogs, but I wouldn't count them out.Quote:
Originally posted by SlartyB:
You are forgetting that AMD is a big company with many more markets than just the processor market. It could survive off all it's other business whilst it faught the big battle with Intel. ATI is not in that position. All of ATI's "eggs" are in one "basket" - graphics. It has no other business to fall back on. nVidia has already taken away a huge part of ATI's market share. Unless ATI diversifies into other markets - it won't be long before it goes under. Either way - it won't be able to sustain any real competition in the graphics market.
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AMD Athlon Thunderbird 900
Abit KT7
Maxtor 20 GB
128 MB PC100
ATi Radeon 32 DDR
Sound Blaster Live! Value
Memorex 48x CD-ROM
Creative 56k PCI
Enlight 7237 250/W
~Wit and sarcasm are dangerous in the hands of a professional.
You are quite right. Matrox and ATI do have enough power to "thwart" Nvidia. But that is IF they're merged. At least that is what a smart CEO from ATI should do.Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Silver:
I beg to differ, AMD has all of their eggs in one basket as well. Their CPU division is the bread-and-butter of the company. If AMD's CPUs die, then the company will die as well. Back to the main topic though, I still don't understand why so many people are thinking that the golden age of 3d accelerators are over. I agree that competition is a healthy thing, but ATi and Matrox have more than enough power to thwart nVidia. Matrox easily dominates the business market, while ATi can give the big N a run for it's money in the gaming end. Have some faith in ATi, they may be the underdogs, but I wouldn't count them out.
As for comments on this topic, it is a natural revolutionary process in a capitalistic society that more and more small firms merge together and form bigger and bigger firms. It has to be that way or else they will go out of business. If that happens, the business owners will become property-less workers. Now they wouldn't want that to happen do they? For those of you that don't like to talk about politics, this isn't politics, this is economics.
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The beginning to the end is here...
Just like what Karl Marx and Jesus Christ predicted...
[This message has been edited by SiNOMan (edited December 17, 2000).]
well, economics, military assets, politics are just different aspects of the same thing.
i mean many of us think (know) that today's develpments are going to destroy western society on the long run, BUT 1st post a link to OFF TOPIC, where u can write pages of this stuff, and 2nd
i don't want to tell you how wrong u are when u're recommending a system that has failed over and over in the past, we need new ideas here, and, for god's sake, we need to stop thinking in only 2 categories, because this won't do us any good!
why? because everybody in between gets 'erased' as soon as those 2 think they have to dominate the world.
and this sucks, because that's exactly my situation.
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No Pain, No Gain!
Actually ATI is bigger than Nvidia and 3dfx together. You maybe forgot the gigantic OEM market.
But anyways, we lost a competitor (who lost competition a long time ago) which is sad, cause this will affect prices (negatively).
But that's not nvidias fault. If you don't make cometitive products you won't sell them.
That is what happened to 3dfx: High prices for outdated hardware ( this is not intended to start flaming posts ), this will most likely break your neck, and it did.
But there's also a good chance that we all will have very similar vidcards in the future and there's the possibility for some sort of standard, which would push the games forward ( but I don't really believe that https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/5.gif ).
The way I buy vidcards won't change though.
I will always buy the best "bang for the buck" product, no matter who built it.
Today it it the GTS ('cause in Germany the RADEON is much more expensive than a GTS, plus you hardly can get 'em). If I lived in the U.S. it would be the Radeon, Period.
I don't give a **** who built my vidcard. I laugh at people tellin' me, I gotta be loyal to a company. Why should I? Neither Nvidia nor ATI or 3dfx gave me money for buying their HW.
So, after all, we lost one competitor, but things are most likely not going to change.
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Althor
I have a network card with an AMD Tulip chip on it. While a lot of their income is in their CPUs, they also have marketshare in places you didn't even know AMD had heard of.Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Silver:
I beg to differ, AMD has all of their eggs in one basket as well. Their CPU division is the bread-and-butter of the company. If AMD's CPUs die, then the company will die as well.
Ironic how you sound so persuasive yet you're thinking exactly what your rich counterparts that are controlling the "free market" wants you to think - to think that Capitalism is the way to go and Democratic Socialism is not. They have manipulated the market and the law. They, essentially, are the law. Ever heard of lobbyists?Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Iglo:
well, economics, military assets, politics are just different aspects of the same thing.
i mean many of us think (know) that today's develpments are going to destroy western society on the long run, BUT 1st post a link to OFF TOPIC, where u can write pages of this stuff, and 2nd
i don't want to tell you how wrong u are when u're recommending a system that has failed over and over in the past, we need new ideas here, and, for god's sake, we need to stop thinking in only 2 categories, because this won't do us any good!
why? because everybody in between gets 'erased' as soon as those 2 think they have to dominate the world.
and this sucks, because that's exactly my situation.
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The beginning to the end is here...
Just like what Karl Marx and Jesus Christ predicted...
both are dangerous for people like me, without $10M on my account, i should consider myself a looser of the current system, because in the future, the gap is going to widen, i cannot change it, and i'm not pleased with the situation. Law is for those who are weak, Huxley for everone, until somebody gets in the wrong place at the wrong time....then Orwell takes the lead.Quote:
Originally posted by SiNOMan:
Ironic how you sound so persuasive yet you're thinking exactly what your rich counterparts that are controlling the "free market" wants you to think - to think that Capitalism is the way to go and Democratic Socialism is not. They have manipulated the market and the law. They, essentially, are the law. Ever heard of lobbyists?
i've been trying to explain the dangers of joined databses and related secret intelligence assets to quite some people, the best i could get was a stupid facial expression. this habit of many of us is a BIG problem, nobody is listening, and they won't be listening until it is too late. talk fails here, badly!
perhaps i'm going to be the 'Omega Man' - sounds cool, eh?
wake me on day01, at 0600!
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No Pain, No Gain!