still think AMD is great???

[kirkyg]

Originally posted by pudad



I totally agree, the time is over when losers can weasel their way into tech jobs .

Its not funny to talk about the job market like it doesn't affect you. Because it does affect some of us. I just graduated last december and im still having to work at the place i did while in college because the tech market is so slow even in Texas...so you and your smart *** comments can kiss my ...

kirkyg

[a ronin]

North Americans are generally complacent with their lifestyle and think money grows on trees. If we learned the value of a dollar and treat it with the proper respect it deserves we wouldn't be in defecit. Speaking just in macroeconomics, I'm sure we all know a few people who are in debt. They live from paycheque to paycheque and sometimes spend more than they make, then they wonder why it is they have no money and are in debt? The very thought that they can't grasp this simple concept bewilders me. As for losing jobs to foreigners, well that's just the nature of the business. The days where goods and services were brought to you by the good people of the U.S of A are over. Getting a job in this economy is hard enough, having companies go else where for labour compounds it even worse, but they're within their rights to do so. Solution? Pray and hope you make a good impression and forget about making 60k out of college, OR start your own business.

[irwincur]

There are way too many generalizations here... Some specifics...

The average Indian IT worker gets about $6.00/hr, I think Dell even pays $10.00/hr, which in India is a ton. The average person in America gets about $11.00/hr +/- $3.00 depending on where you live. Dell is now actually moving tech support out of India due to low productivity, and the fact that they can actually get cheaper IT labor in the far North East (Maine and New Hampshire).

The US is second in terms of productivity per worker. But we rate low in terms of what you have to pay that worker in comparison to what they actually do. In other words, yes, US workers get more done, but we are expensive as hell.

Thank the Unions. They are the number one factor as to why jobs are leaving this country as fast as they are. They are also the number one reason why US wages look so much higher than the rest of the world. If you take Unions out of the equation, 20% of US workers would make 1/2 or less of what they make now. This is the problem we are currently facing. A Union workforce cannot make a cheap product at a profit because of labor costs.

Europe is also a bad solution. Sure there are many skilled workers that need jobs, but they are near the bottom in terms of productivity, and labor costs. It is essentially where the US is headed. 20% unemployment in skilled labor fields, low productivity and apathy, topped out by people demanding fewer hours and tons of time off. It has been said by the head of France's number one telecom, he would rather have 30% of his chairs empty, because they would be more productive than the workers that sit there.

Just some stuff to think about.

[lightbulb8817]

Originally posted by pudad
...I'm sick of hearing all this b1tching about foreigners taking our jobs because we suck at it and demand too much money, and is what we get I suppose.

$5.25 minimum wage is too much money? I don't think it's enough.

[1ctabor]

Originally posted by irwincur

Thank the Unions. They are the number one factor as to why jobs are leaving this country as fast as they are. They are also the number one reason why US wages look so much higher than the rest of the world. If you take Unions out of the equation, 20% of US workers would make 1/2 or less of what they make now. This is the problem we are currently facing. A Union workforce cannot make a cheap product at a profit because of labor costs.

Unions were made for the reason of people being under payed in the first place. To listen to you is to agree to say we as a nation deserve less money for what we do. I'm in a union and I back it 100%. I wouldn't want to do it for less. I also realize that there are some scabs out there that would do it for less. What i'm saying is why? Why work for less when the companies can still afford to pay you more and still get rich. Believe me, they do. Why shouldn't US wages look higher? We are the greatest nation on this planet so why the hell shouldn't we live like it. Your last statement is completely false. A union workforce provides good experience to do a job the right way. There may be non union out that can do the job fine but there are plenty that can't. Why gamble? Its thinking like yours that is putting this nation in the $hithole its going into now. When this kind of thinking gets into office is when the economy goes to $hit.

[rusty c]

There USED to be a decent tarrif on products shipped into the U.S.A.! It was changed when the American companies started going overseas! Naturally to give the American companies a "break"! So a break with lower wages! A break with no regulations, workers comp etc., a break with no paid benifits, Blue Cross ETC., and no or little taxes paid to the U.S.A.! This is fine and dandy for the companys! What it means to the workers is that there is less work and more competion for the jobs that are left here in the states and with LESS jobs here the companys here can offer slightly lower wages and less benifits because they know that there will be someone to take the job here!

What the greedy companys don't seem to understand is that if no one or not many are working here, who of us will have enough money to buy their products!
Then the circle will change again!!!

None of us worked in the mines and sweat shops to see how the unions were needed!
Now with the unions its the workers who make good money and the work areas are safer!
Workers and Companys that can "work together" usually equal sucessful companies and workers!

Just look at all the foriegn auto companys that are building their cars HERE now and making a good profit! HOW DO THEY DO IT! They pay the same union workers here! Think about it! Their MOVING their plants HERE!

My take? Greedy American Capitalists!!!

[SkyDog]

Labor unions during the industrial revolution and afterward were what allowed the average working stiff to earn a decent wage. And if it weren't for the benefits they won back then, there's a chance people would still be doing backbreaking labor for pennies a day while the companies raked in cash hand over fist.

On the other hand, labor unions are also responsible for salary inflation in particular jobs, like longshoremen earning six-figure salaries. Do you really need to pay over $100,000 a year to the guys loading and unloading cargo ships?! And their pensioners make something like $50,000 per year with full benefits for doing nothing. I'll agree they earned a pension for their years of service, but damn that's a lot of money to pay for zero productivity.

It's a very complex issue, but as a whole I'd say we're much better off for having labor unions. They may not be as important today as they were at the turn of the last century, but without them, wages and worker rights would certainly regress.

[dudewth]

Originally posted by rusty c
There USED to be a decent tarrif on products shipped into the U.S.A.! It was changed when the American companies started going overseas! Naturally to give the American companies a "break"! So a break with lower wages! A break with no regulations, workers comp etc., a break with no paid benifits, Blue Cross ETC., and no or little taxes paid to the U.S.A.! This is fine and dandy for the companys! What it means to the workers is that there is less work and more competion for the jobs that are left here in the states and with LESS jobs here the companys here can offer slightly lower wages and less benifits because they know that there will be someone to take the job here!

What the greedy companys don't seem to understand is that if no one or not many are working here, who of us will have enough money to buy their products!
Then the circle will change again!!!

None of us worked in the mines and sweat shops to see how the unions were needed!
Now with the unions its the workers who make good money and the work areas are safer!
Workers and Companys that can "work together" usually equal sucessful companies and workers!

Just look at all the foriegn auto companys that are building their cars HERE now and making a good profit! HOW DO THEY DO IT! They pay the same union workers here! Think about it! Their MOVING their plants HERE!

My take? Greedy American Capitalists!!!

Greedy followed by capitalist is a given. If you're not greedy, then you fail. That's how business works, try and be nice and you'll get shafted around every corner.

If you want to know why the foreign car makers can still make money while producing cars here you have to look at their efficiency. Also, around the world the sale of American cars is relatively low, whereas in, say, Korea Hyundai is the most bought brand. It's the same in Japan and in Europe, they sell their cars here but they also sell them back home.

[shasha]

Yes over in Asia, 99% of the people buy and suppport their home brands, same thing with Electronics. Part of it is because hte American made stuff is so expensive especially with import taxes and they really believe that they are supporting their own with loyal purchases. It is kind of true to, all of that revenue goes right back into their country one way or another. Where as in the states we seem to go for price and quality, not so much manufacturer location.

All I know is that when a high schoool drop out is making $7.50/hour at Taco Bell and is still complaining, something is really wrong with the pay/labor scale. We get paid a lot more than other countries for skilless positions. Add some skill to it and the wages we make are astronomical comparatively. And I don't know where it happened, but there is a hell of a lot of useless people joining the workforce these days. Absolutely no pride and they expect to all be millionares, just like in the movies. You get what you work for, do a half *** job and get paid half assed. Don't go the extra step or take one for the team and you will either get layed off, passed up for promotion or lose your job to a country where slaving over a press at a factory for $10/hr is a dream job. So until people really start earning their pay, let them lose their jobs. I know that if I had a bunch of deadbeats working for me, I would replace them with better, cheaper labor. Just because someone is an American does not mean that they are better, it means that they were born in America. I know a lot of losers from all over the world. There everywhere in every country, some work for less...

So in summary, if AMD feels that they can get similar or better results from a cheaper labor market, then it s just good business. The only people that should be mad about this are the ones that lost their jobs. And maybe they should look in the mirror and say, "did I earn my paycheck everyday?" If they can, I doubt they will be out of work for long.

[LordOPain]

i dont usually rant but here goes:
many of you here are over-generalizing... your grouping all into 1 class of worker.. Do you think because you live in another country that your better? you work harder? you dont even know me!!

how'd you like it if i said "you all look alike to me" or "you all have funny accents"? pretty lame huh?..
i work for a living as do many, many americans.. i avg 50hrs a week not including what i do at home.. SO K.M.A.!!!

im not exactly a fan of unions because i dont think that a guy who just started is worth what i am regardless of dept. or position..
a city south of my home was fed by a utility that booted out the union. the return was so large they cut rates in half and actually sent $return$ to customers..

"Why work for less when the companies can still afford to pay you more and still get rich." - because you drive up the cost of living and products going on strike and making demands... unions had their time, now they can go..

i agree the cost of US production is too high(overhead moreso than labor)..
i challenge about every dept./sister facility in the company i work for.. theyd better give me their lowest cost or ill go outside for my materials, simple as that..

i dont blame AMD for what they did, but itll come back to haunt them though.. as it will for all american based companies that moved over boarders and across waters.. N.A.F.T.A. MUST DIE!!

its a damn shame, but eventually youll see the cost of living go down, the US govt will start to trim up expenditures(starving the countries that are taking the jobs)and bust down on the only incomes that are left..

in any case, it wont do these companies any good if noone can buy the product..

[1ctabor]

Originally posted by LordOPain
because you drive up the cost of living and products going on strike and making demands... unions had their time, now they can go..

NO, unions don't drive up the cost of living, its the manufacturers/companies themselves driving up the cost. Fact is, they don't want to get rich slower so ANY little cost is pushed on the consumer. I agree unions have their flaws but they also provide good pay, job security, and excellent benefits to their members. Why should we work for less when the guy at the top of the company could easily live on 10 million instead of 50 million? Thats just an example by the way not a specific number.

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by speedstream5621
That is true, but it means absolutely nothing if the cost of living increases alongside of it...which it is.

I forgot that part: all income brackets are increasing EVEN WHEN FACTORING IN INFLATION.

Unions were made for the reason of people being under payed in the first place. To listen to you is to agree to say we as a nation deserve less money for what we do. I'm in a union and I back it 100%. I wouldn't want to do it for less.

Unions served a purpose once upon a time and are now obsolete. It is basic economics that higher wages = higher unemployment. Take a look at the airlines - if the unions refuse to deal with the economic realities (to their credit, most have) they will all lose their jobs. Getting a higher wage doesn't help you if you force your company out of business or force them to cut jobs. And this is exactly what we are seeing and talking about in this thread.

[Galen of Edgewood]

Originally posted by Skywize
Take a close look at the american worker, they get to work 5 minutes late, they leave 15 minutes early, they make sure they take every single sick day they possibly can, they love to strike, they love to blame other people for their screwups...and don't even get me started on government employees (unfortunately not even the great wall in china is big enough to put them up against - pretty sure we got the ammunition though )

Wow... That's about as intellegent of a response as the one above bashing Native Americans while meaning Indians.

I arrived at work almost always on time, or before time, and would often stay past time to leave. I don't strike (of course, you need to be in a union to do that, but hey), I don't blame others for my screwups, and I feel bad when I have to take a sick day because I feel like I let my co-workers down.

Get off of your generalizing high-horse and realize that it's not okay to bash US Citizens anymore than it is right to bash the rest of the world.

[Royal Oaks]

Originally posted by KaoTiK



LOLOLOLOL!!!

Indians work??

Hahahaha! Could've fooled me!

Although a racist statement, it is borderline true.

Also coolqf, if you are speaking of Indians in America you might be right (not sure), but if you are speaking of Native Americans you are horribly wrong. 'injuns' refuse to assimilate, and thus are by far the poorest group in America. More than half live on reservations and do not work. They have the highest percentage of their people in poverty and they just kinda sit around and do nothing (the majority).

And, Jesus, I guess me and russ_watters think exactly the same about everything. When people start realizing the oppurtunites that are presented to them today, we will stop hearing the complaints. I mean what can't you learn on the internet today??? And, although I know a large portion of people are not born with the same oppurtunity to succeed, that is utter crap in today's world. In urban areas where poverty is greatest there are libraries. Anyone can go down to a public library and sit on a computer all day and get an education. That costs $0. All I hear is excuses about this and that (as you can tell I have no sympathy for those who do not wish to become educated, nor for those who are not educated yet complain). If you have skills and someone needs those skills, you will get a job. It is that simple. That is all the economics I need, so all you majors with your single variable formulas get lost (just a joke, although unless you are a serious economer, or whatever the hell they call you people, I doubt you would do anything more than finding the derivative of something. I have done work with the Cobb-Douglas formula, but unless all economic majors take multivariable calculus then they have no idea how to fully interpret that formula so in short go away ). Anyways, none of these problems will ever be solved so it is stupid to discuss solutions. As much as I would like to see the world filled with educated people who make rational decisions, I understand that will never happen. I like getting a good laugh though by flipping through channels and stumbling across the "REAL WORLD OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG" or "Joe Millionaire", or engaging in an intelligent conversation with a sorority girl. And the best part is I know the majority of people here watch those programs or think I am stupid. I love America

[knuckles644]

Originally posted by KaoTiK



LOLOLOLOL!!!

Indians work??

Hahahaha! Could've fooled me!

Arrrrghhh!! You a$$...did you ever think that you could offend people with that statement??? For instance- me- a Cherokee?????
My dad is perhaps the hardest working person I know. Do you come home at 3 A.M. from work???? Seriously- think about it- up to 19 hr work days?? Crazy but true since he's running a small business. And he doesn't get paid by the hour, so no matter how much he puts in, he gets the same paycheck. DAMMMMNNNN YOU KAOTIK!!!