P4 & Rambus

[loukings]

If price not the problem will the P4 rambus 800 mhz set up be the true performance leader over DDR 200 or 266 which is not even out yet (I dont care if its AMD or P4). I will be building a P4 set up Q1 and want to know if Rambus is that bad a choice, in my opinion I think DDR will be a bottle neck when matched with the P4 due to system bus mis-match. Share you opinions.

[Humus]

It'll probably be slower, but even if it would be faster I'd recommend buying DDR-RAM instead (if there are motherboard available for it) since it's cheaper and because Rambus is plainly a bad company which you shouldn't support by buying their products.
The mismatch with the system bus (in case of DDR 266) it'll probably be slightly slower than it would be if it was running syncroniously (like PC-133 on a Athlon doesn't boost too much over PC-100), but still faster than DDR 200 (which will be syncroniuos with the system bus).

BTW, DDR is actually already available and has been for a couple of months.

[loukings]

I know DDR has been available on video cards but not motu's. Why does rambus have such a bad rap because of the i820 chipset that could not optimise with a 133mhz fsb, and were do you think DDR came from, the same makers as rambus. If P4 and rambus shake out to do what was intended DDR will not be able to keep up. The latest price on Kingston rambus 800mhz is $635 ouch that does suck you figure DDR 266 will be about $350-$400 for quality stuff. I am staying optimistic for price drops on rambus w/ the intoduction of P4 .

[sww]

RAMBUS has a bad rep because the stole technology and filed a patent on it and are now suing people based on the stolen intellectual property. DDR SDRAM will be marginally more expensive than SDRAM. PC800 RDRAM is NOT 800 MHz.

[loukings]

stole the technology is this a fact and were did you get your info? as far as 800mhz I realise that number does not in anyway reflect system bus speed. I believe it has do with internal clock speeds I may be wrong I will check on line for the specifics.

[sww]

Well, actually stole is a matter of contention between the memory manufacturers and RAMBUS. I actually don't have access to all the information so I shouldn't make judgments like that, but the info I do have seems to indicate that they took information from an open standards meeting and patented portions of it.

[loukings]

Well to rambus's credit they turned idea into reality. Although I think they came out to soon for they're own good. Rambus just does not benefit from 133 fsb. They ended up looking like asses with over priced under performing memory. They should have just waited and developed more and released along side P4. A waiting game to see DDR & Rambus shoot out w/ P4

[smtkr]

Rambus will rule with 400Mhz FSB on the PIV. The price will drop as it will become a standard.

[Arcadian]

Originally posted by smtkr:
Rambus will rule with 400Mhz FSB on the PIV. The price will drop as it will become a standard.

Unfortunately, Rambus is an example of "The Chicken and the Egg" syndrome. What comes first? Increased demand, or lower prices? If people don't immediately flock to Pentium 4, and chances are the Pentium 4 is aimed at a high end segment, which is low volume, then producers of Rambus memory won't have reason to increase supply. Without an increase in supply, Rambus is likely to stay high priced. It's what people call a "Catch-22". Unfortunately, Rambus is the best standard for the high bandwidth Pentium 4, but it may not last, since people consider DDR to be the better value, and when the masses believe eventually becomes reality.

[Thrawn_CW]

but if u think about it, over time the p4 will filter down into the medium computer market, as intel faze out the p3, so demand will increase bringing down the price of RDRAM, the problem is they have to survive the DDR onslught first.

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Life is like a box of chocolates....you always get left with the crap.

[Arcadian]

Originally posted by Thrawn_CW:
but if u think about it, over time the p4 will filter down into the medium computer market, as intel faze out the p3, so demand will increase bringing down the price of RDRAM, the problem is they have to survive the DDR onslught first.

You've got it backward. Demand INCREASES prices. If Pentium 4 and Rambus were to be brought down into the mainstream, it would be supply than decreases prices.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Arcadian:
You've got it backward. Demand INCREASES prices. If Pentium 4 and Rambus were to be brought down into the mainstream, it would be supply than decreases prices.

Economies of scale are what is needed to bring down price. Increased in supply and demand mean more parts are produced which in turn lowers the production cost per part.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by sww:
Well, actually stole is a matter of contention between the memory manufacturers and RAMBUS. I actually don't have access to all the information so I shouldn't make judgments like that, but the info I do have seems to indicate that they took information from an open standards meeting and patented portions of it.

The sequence runs something like this. Rambus developed some technology in 1990 and applied for patents. In 1995 JEDEC met and developed the SDRAM standard. Part of the standard mirrored the tech that Rambus was patenting. JEDEC rules say that members must reveal patent applications relating to technologies it is developing. Rambus was part of JEDEC at the time, but did not vote on the standard.

Discussions on DDR SDRAM standard began in 1997. Rambus was no longer a part of JEDEC.

Infinion is now claiming that they have patents that predate the Rambus work. We do not know if this applies to all three patents Rambus claims SDRAM violates.

I see no guaranty that Rambus will loose the court case, in fact until the prior art claims by Infineon I thought Rambus would almost certainly win. At least on DDR and maybe SDRAM as well.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by loukings:
I know DDR has been available on video cards but not motu's. Why does rambus have such a bad rap because of the i820 chipset that could not optimise with a 133mhz fsb, and were do you think DDR came from, the same makers as rambus. If P4 and rambus shake out to do what was intended DDR will not be able to keep up. The latest price on Kingston rambus 800mhz is $635 ouch that does suck you figure DDR 266 will be about $350-$400 for quality stuff. I am staying optimistic for price drops on rambus w/ the intoduction of P4 .

You can get Samsung PC800 at $208.00 for 1 128-MB stick and 129 for a 64-MB stick. You can find cheaper than this. P4's will apparently ship with a 64-MB stick of RDRAM. So if you want a system with 128 MB it will cost you $100-$140 for (Rambus) memory.

Prices may rise again if demand goes back up.

I think that RDRAM will be faster then DDR SDRAM on the P4 due to the FSB being more suited to RDRAM. This is just speculation though.

[ginsu2k]

> I know DDR has been available on video cards but not motu's.

you answer your own question...really, if RAMBUS was superior, wouldn't we have seen it on Video Cards by now? i mean, that's the most bandwith intensive scenario i can think of for RAM...
...honestly, if they had superior tech. why would they sue other manufacturers for producing DDR...they know it's not working out so they're scratching the walls for something before they go down...seriously