Hippie Recyling

[THESANTINI]

Is this actually good for the environment. Not buying plastics for soda bottles & using aluminum to cut back on foreign oil (or oil) etc.

[Frostburn]

Not buying any petrol product is good for the environment and the economy.

[Moridin]

Aluminum is very energy intensive to produce, though it is true that this generally isn’t petroleum. Natural gas, Coal and Nuclear energy also provide a lot of the electricity needed to produce aluminum.

[Frostburn]

Moridin, that's correct. The process to extract aluminum uses a lot more energy than it takes to smelt it back down and recycle it; plus it doesn't necessarily require foreign oil.

[ua549]

Not buying any petrol product is good for the environment and the economy.

Limiting the use of petroleum products will actually harm the economy because petroleum is used in the production of goods and services. Replacement technologies must be developed and implemented before any meaningful reduction of petroleum consumption is economically feasible.

Several obvious petroleum replacement technologies have been explored, tested, partially implemented and all but abandoned. The most infamous are all related to the production of energy by alternative means - nuclear, solar, wind, tidal, coal and gas.

Without a continuing supply of petroleum products several sectors of our economy would cease to exist including high technology, transportation, pharmaceutical, plastics and a large portion of manufacturing.

Criticism always turns to a discussion of the automobile. We need mass transit, more fuel efficient cars, slower speed limits, ad nausium.

Mass transit will not work in most of the US because of decisions made last century to disburse the centers of production and the population. I live in a major metro area, yet there is no city center, no factory district, no office district. Those facilities are here, but disbursed throughout the geographic area. There are not enough people going from area A to area B to support a bus route let alone mass transportation. Even then one may have to hire a car to go from a mass transit terminus to their final destination.

Fuel efficiency and slower speed limits can also be counterproductive. As the saying goes "time is money". It is true. When a national speed limit was implemented reducing speeds by more than 25% (75 mph --> 55 mph), many trucks actually consumed more fuel at the slower speed because they had to use a lower gear. They became obsolete immediately. Labor costs increased substantially. Delivery of goods was delayed. This was not good for the economy.

Reducing petroleum consumption is good if, and only if, there are replacement technologies available.

[Frostburn]

Reducing petroleum consumption is good if, and only if, there are replacement technologies available.

I completely agree. The American public just needs to take a step back and see the grand scheme of things. Like SUV versus hybrid or electric cars. Theres even government money that encourages you to buy hybrid.

[ua549]

Unfortunately electric and hybrid vehicle technology is nowhere near ready for prime time due to lack of range, load capacity, acceleration, crashworthiness, . . .

[russ_watters]

Unfortunately electric and hybrid vehicle technology is nowhere near ready for prime time due to lack of range, load capacity, acceleration, crashworthiness, . . .

On pure electric I agree, but hybrids are here and viable now. For an extra $1000 or so you can get it as an option on a stock honda civic (and one of the toyotas I think). A couple of other manufacturers have brand new hybrid only cars. I think altogether there are about half a dozen 2003 model year cars with hybrid engines.

The civic goes for about $20,000 and gets about 48 mpg in an 11 gal tank for a range of about 500 miles. 0-60 is about 12 seconds though. Motor trend gave it good reviews.

[ua549]

Originally posted by russ_watters

The civic goes for about $20,000 and gets about 48 mpg in an 11 gal tank for a range of about 500 miles. 0-60 is about 12 seconds though. Motor trend gave it good reviews.

0-60 mph in 12 seconds will get you killed in the Tampa metro area where one has about 5 car lengths to merge from a dead stop into 70mph traffic. I suppose the car is useful if you don't drive it on main roads in town. On the open highway a car needs good acceleration in the critical 50-70mph speed range used for passing.

I know there are parts of the country that have very slow speed limits, but Florida is not one of them.

[serotone9]

electric and alternative vehicles don't exist as much because the auto/oil industries have squelched the development of those technologies to retain their stranglehold on consumers and reduce choice.

mass transit doesn't exist as a viable choice because the auto/oil industries bought up cable car and mass transit in the 30s and 40s for the purposes of trashing it, receiving huge govt. subsidies to create highway systems for the cars they sell instead (again, reducing consumer choice).

http://www.nader.org/interest/082902.html

petroleum use also increases health care costs, as it pollutes the groundwater and as the rates of childhood onset asthma, respiratory and circulatory disorders (e.g., sudden heart attacks from breathing the air) and other petroleum-borne diseases skyrocket.

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/585986.asp?cp1=1

not to mention the intense political problems the world faces today because of oil. petroleum is basically an evil. the sooner we learn to do without it the better for everyone and for the planet.