LCD monitor purchase:

[sgtgto]

HI:
I am looking at a Samsung 21" widescreen to replace my good working Viewsonic 21"crt monitor. How does a 21" widescreen compare to a 21 " crt for gamers. I have never used an lcd. the Samsung has good specks so what do u think. Does refresh rate matter in lcd monitors. Some go up to 73 and some at only 60Hz.

Gary

[XJ]

HI:
I am looking at a Samsung 21" widescreen to replace my good working Viewsonic 21"crt monitor. How does a 21" widescreen compare to a 21 " crt for gamers. I have never used an lcd. the Samsung has good specks so what do u think. Does refresh rate matter in lcd monitors. Some go up to 73 and some at only 60Hz.

Gary

I'm no LCD expert that's for sure, but here's what I think.

LCDs don't really have refresh rates as far as I know and I haven't seen them listed under most specs. LCDs have response times. LCDs don't refresh like CRTs the picture is static and only changes as requested not a constant refresh like CRTs. So I'm not sure what your seeing.

As far as gaming I have held out a long time here switching to an LCD, but made the plunge last night. I haven't gamed for extended periods of time on LCDs but the time I have spent on them on newer ones I haven't noticed any problems.

I just ordered this on http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...CatHome&pos=13

It has great specs and I have used a few sceptre's in the past and have been pleased with them. Also it's from Costco so returning it is as easy can be if I don't like anything about it. Best bang for you buck I have seen in a long while.

[sgtgto]

Hi:

That looks like a good deal. The only thing, I have read that to be Vista compliant any monitor you get needs to have HDCP. I think thats what they call it. Anyway, that has to do with the highest resolution the monitor can display which will be needed with windows vista and direct x 10. Am I correct on this.

Gary

[Chuck232]

HDCP is about high definition content. BluRay and HD DVD won't allow you to play at the full 720p/1080p unless you have an HDCP ready video card and monitor.

If you can settle with slightly less viewing angles and color reproduction, the 20" TN and 22" TN panels are pretty good choices for a lot less than the 21" Samsung. The newer ones are mostly HDCP ready. The Viewsonic 20" widescreen is actually a MVA (or PVA?) panel which has as a better picture than the TN panels that most of the 20" and 22" LCDs use, but lacks HDCP if you deem that to be necessary.

[sgtgto]

Hi:

thanks a lot:

Gary

[XJ]

Hi:

That looks like a good deal. The only thing, I have read that to be Vista compliant any monitor you get needs to have HDCP. I think thats what they call it. Anyway, that has to do with the highest resolution the monitor can display which will be needed with windows vista and direct x 10. Am I correct on this.

Gary

Hey sgtgto that monitor has HDCP. Not sure if you thought that or not but it sounded like you thought it wasn't from your post
http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/...22wg_NagaP.htm

[sgtgto]

Hey sgtgto that monitor has HDCP. Not sure if you thought that or not but it sounded like you thought it wasn't from your post
http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/...22wg_NagaP.htm

Hi:

the spcs on the previous post didn't show it is why I thought it didn't. Do you have this one?

Gary

[XJ]

Hi:

the spcs on the previous post didn't show it is why I thought it didn't. Do you have this one?

Gary

Yes that was just Costco's site if you use the model number and go to the manufacture's site like my second link it show it.

I don't have this one, but I ordered it a couple days ago.
I know others with Sceptres and have used them briefly.

I have been talking about it in a couple threads
http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?t=291083

[sgtgto]

I'm no LCD expert that's for sure, but here's what I think.

LCDs don't really have refresh rates as far as I know and I haven't seen them listed under most specs. LCDs have response times. LCDs don't refresh like CRTs the picture is static and only changes as requested not a constant refresh like CRTs. So I'm not sure what your seeing.

As far as gaming I have held out a long time here switching to an LCD, but made the plunge last night. I haven't gamed for extended periods of time on LCDs but the time I have spent on them on newer ones I haven't noticed any problems.

I just ordered this on http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...CatHome&pos=13

It has great specs and I have used a few sceptre's in the past and have been pleased with them. Also it's from Costco so returning it is as easy can be if I don't like anything about it. Best bang for you buck I have seen in a long while.

Hi:

I was reaing that they are using tn panels for this monitor but won't admit it. No response. Do you know of a review of this one since I am real interested in it.

Gary

[XJ]

Hi:

I was reaing that they are using tn panels for this monitor but won't admit it. No response. Do you know of a review of this one since I am real interested in it.

Gary

From what I can find it looks like it might be a TN panel. I don't think it is anything sinister that they are hiding. It is a newer panel and there really isn't much out on it yet.

From what I have seen it is TN + HiRac. What HiRac means I'm not sure as of yet.

I saw the viewsonic at Costco and that is a TN panel as well from what I have read. I didn't give it too thorough a look, but it seemed like a nice enough monitor.

I'm taking the chance and ordered it. I am going to decide for myself and see if I like it. If not it's Costco and will be an easy full refund return.

[soupnazi]

Yup, XJ you've probably read about it here. I'm guessing it's a TN 6bit+Hi-FRC panel which is 6bit with dithering. (see xtknight's 3rd post; penguin icon)
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear

Just a heads up: You can usually tell it's a TN by sitting below the monitor and looking upwards. If the picture is dark/black, it's TN. If it's light/washed out, it's IPS/MVA/PVA. (see link for examples)
http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...6-8-16-ms.html

Nonetheless. Congrats on the monitor and let us know how things work out.

[sgtgto]

Hi:

First I want to say I really appreciate your writeup on Blose. It is so true, and how people can be so easioy misled is beyond me.

I have about settled on the Samsung 215 TW. From what I have read it is a really a good monitor, but I haven't given up on the sceptre. Waiting on some reviews for it. Maybe the gentleman that previously said he bought one will post when he get's it.

Thanks for all the help. I am almost knowledgable about LCDs now. Almost!!


Gary

[camaro]

TFT Technology Breakdown and Model/Panel Index
LCD Panel Technology Type and Characteristics

TN film (Twisted Nematic)
- low manufacturing/retail costs
- restrictive viewing angles
- fast pixel response times
- dead pixels display white. Stuck pixels display RGB colors
- lower contrast levels means blacks are not as dark as VA based panels
- lower color reproduction

IPS (In Plane Switching)
- improved viewing angles over TN
- very good color reproduction
- slower pixel response times than TN
- dead pixels display black
- lower contrast levels means blacks are not as dark as VA based panels

Super-IPS (S-IPS)
- same as IPS except ...
- likely best color reproduction of all TFT
- less expensive to produce than IPS
- improved pixel response


VA (Vertical Alignment) Technologies

MVA (Multidomain Vertical Alignment)
- compromise between TN and IPS technologies
- superior color reproduction over TN but not as good as IPS
- very good viewing angles but less than IPS
- higher contrast than TN or S-IPS means very good blacks
- dead pixels are black
- slower pixel response than TN or IPS
- details can be lost when directly viewing dark areas

Premium-MVA (P-MVA)
- same as MVA except ...
- "overdrive" technology increases pixel response but still slower than TN
- may have slightly degraded color reproduction due to "overdrive" process

PVA (Patterned VA)
- same as MVA except ...
- larger viewing angles
- higher contrast levels means darkest blacks

Super-PVA (S-PVA)
- same as PVA except ...
- “Magic Speed” (the Samsung equivalent to Overdrive) improves pixel response
- slightly improved color reproduction
- slightly improved viewing angles



Purchasing Considerations

TN Gamers
Considered a "gamers" panel due to it's fast pixel response times which reduces trailing images know as "ghosting". However, this advantage has been reduced by new technologies to accelerate pixel response times in other panel types. Colors and contrast tend to be weak and blacks are not truly dark. Viewing angles are significantly limited. However, monitors based on this technology tend to be inexpensive.

IPS / S-IPS Graphics Work or Web Browsing
Considered to have the best color reproduction of all panel types, these panels are well suited for graphics work or web browsing. Pixel response time is also good but slower than the TN "gamers" panel. Contast and blacks are also less dark than VA panels but viewing angles are excellent.

MVA / P-MVA / PVA / S-PVA Compromise for All-Around Use
These panels are a compromise between the fast pixel response times of the TN panel and the excellent color reproduction of the IPS panels. Contrast and blacks are best of all the panel types. Viewing angles are similar but slightly inferior to IPS.


Model/Panel Index


Acer
Acer AL1951Cs - 19" TN Film
Acer AL1916ws - 19" WS TN Film
Acer AL2016ws - 20" WS Chunghwa Picture Tubes TN Film
Acer AL2032wa - 20" WS AU Optronics P-MVA (M201EW01 V0) OR LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201W01)

BenQ
BenQ FP202W - 20" WS Chunghwa Picture Tubes TN Film

Dell
Dell 1905FP - 19" Samsung PVA (LTM190E4-L02) or AU Optronics P-MVA (M190EN03 V0)
Dell 1907FP - 19" TN Film
Dell 2001FP - 20" LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201U04)
Dell 2005FPW - 20" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201W01)
Dell 2007WFP - 20" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201W01)
Dell 2007FP - 20" LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201U04)
Dell 2405FPW - 24" WS Samsung PVA (LTM240M1-L01)
Dell 2407WFP - 24" WS Samsung S-PVA (LM201W01)
Dell 3007WFP - 30" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM300W01)

Gateway
Gateway FPD2185W - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)

HP
HP F2105 - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)

Hyundai
Hyundai L90D+ - 19" Samsung TN (LTM190EX-L01)

NEC
NEC LCD20WGX2 - 20" LG.Philips AS-IPS (LM201W01)

Sceptre X20G Naga II 16ms 20" P-MVA
Sceptre X20G Naga II - 20" WS P-MVA

Samsung
Samsung 930B - 19" Samsung TN Film
Samsung 940B - 19" Samsung TN Film
Samsung 940T - 19" Samsung PVA (LTM190E4)
Samsung 940MW - 19"WS Samsung TN Film (LTM190M2)
Samsung 204B - 20" Samsung TN Film (LTM201UX)
Samsung 215TW - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)
Samsung 244T - 24" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2)

ViewSonic
ViewSonic VA1912W - 19" WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)
ViewSonic VP912B - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04 V1)
Viewsonic VX922 - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04)
Viewsonic VX924 - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04 V5)
ViewSonic VP920 - 19" TN Film
ViewSonic VP930 - 19" AU Optronics P-MVA (M190EG01 V0)
ViewSonic VA1912W - 19" WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)
ViewSonic VA2012WB - 20" WS Chunghwa Picture Tubes TN Film
ViewSonic VX2025WM - 20" WS AU Optronics P-MVA (M201EW01 V0)

[soupnazi]

No problem Sgtgto! Although I cannot take credit for the Bose article as I'm not the author. Enjoy you new Samsung and let us know what you think of it! (it's wicked that it's a S-PVA panel and not a cheaper TN)

Camaro, that is AMAZING information. Did you create it yourself or do you have a link to the source? It is very educational and informative. I've bookmarked this post for future reference.

[camaro]

No problem Sgtgto! Although I cannot take credit for the Bose article as I'm not the author. Enjoy you new Samsung and let us know what you think of it! (it's wicked that it's a S-PVA panel and not a cheaper TN)

Camaro, that is AMAZING information. Did you create it yourself or do you have a link to the source? It is very educational and informative. I've bookmarked this post for future reference.

I found it on some forum and are spreading the good information everywhere.