The Official NFL Thread

[MrDigital]

So the Lions picked up Nate Burleson. Not much of a replacement for Roy Williams IMO but at least it gives them someone to take the pressure off Megatron so that teams don't triple cover him. Burleson did well when he was playing with another amazing receiver back with Moss on the Vikes, so maybe he'll bring his game up to a new level.

And I guess with the Redskins getting McNabb the chances of the Lions being able to trade down and still get someone they want aren't plausible. They don't seem wanting to pay out the money to a #2 overall and are wavering, but if they give up on Suh I'm gonna be pissed.

[md1198p]

In his defense, if he lost half the speed he had before prison he would still be the fastest QB in the league by a fair margin.

I mean, the guy was a solid candidate for fastest player in the league at ANY position. He'll still be a ridiculously fast QB whether he's as fast as he was before or not. I think one reason why his running was so weak this past year, in addition to simply having been out of football for so long, is that EVERYBODY on the field knew he would be running the ball and that him passing was extremely unlikely. His speed made him a great runner, true, but it was enhanced by the fact that defenses were spread out by having to defend the pass; he may have been a one read and run QB, but he also had a freaking CANNON that could hit anybody on the field with the ball. Scrambling in that case is almost more similar to a punt return than an actual running play, imo, and the skillset is a bit different. He didn't seem to be all that great of a designed runner last year, and I don't think he'll really be all that effective as a 5-8 play QB, coming in only when he's 99% likely to run.

I'd still go with Kolb as the starter, personally, but with the thought in my mind that Vick will still be able to do things no one else can do and that he easily has the potential to be a starter in the future.

No doubt he could start for a bunch of teams...but he could not run a west coast offense. And thats what Andy Reid coaches.

I agree that when you know the guy will run its not that hard to defend. I though last year the "wildcat" formation was better with Desean Jackson under center anyway...he is much faster and its almost impossible to stop him from getting to the edge. The first half of the season Vick was just him getting in shape and up to game speed. But we did see a lot of what he can do in a limited role after that. The Atlanta game, he threw a red zone TD, ran a TD, and had a 40+ yard completion. Also, he was picked up in the preseason, so the coaching staff did not have the amount of time they have had this year to come up with stuff. I think his role will be expanded and he will be more effective this year. I think he will be used a lot inside the 10 yard line. With a whole season under his belt and a full camp he will not be 99% likely to run, and these packages could be very dangerous and dificult to defend.

[Spank_Me_Hard]

Ronnie Brown runs the Wildcat on the team that invented it and it seems when he's running it it's far more run than pass. I've seen him throw it before, but it's very scarce.

And yet the 'Phins seem to run the Wildcat very well. Despite people having to almost know that a run is coming.

[Spank_Me_Hard]

I think that the trade was a horrid one for Philly.

Pro Bowl QBs, nevermind future HOF QBs don't grow on trees. The very highest of first round picks are spent year after year after year trying to find them that end up VERY much being busts.

A second, and a third or fourth pick is far less than he's worth IMO. Even with McNabb's age (which I think that he could potentially play for five more years).

I think that the Eagles are crazy as well going with Kolb over McNabb. I understand that Kolb has shown ability in limited action as well as potential. But you are replacing freaking Donovan McNabb here! Those are some massive shoes to fill in Philly. Will Kolb make people forget McNabb? I have serious doubts. For every Rogers replacing Favre, there are three backups who fizzles out (and even Rogers still has to prove still IMO, I don't make judgement after one season).

I have been critical of McNabb in the past. I still think that he relies on scrambling ability for defences to break down at times. But he has been a very good QB over 11 years in the NFL, not an easy thing to find. He's a definite upgrade for Washington in the toughest position in the league. And time will tell, but I think that his moving on will be a downgrade for Philly at that same position.

[MrDigital]

I think McNabb is a choker and the Eagles wouldn't win a SB with him. So regardless of whether Kolb (or Vick) are better/worse, it's really a matter of whether they are solid enough to lead the team to a SB. I don't know anything about Kolb, but I know when he was starting I always bet against the Eagles in my weekly pools.

[md1198p]

I think that the trade was a horrid one for Philly.

Pro Bowl QBs, nevermind future HOF QBs don't grow on trees. The very highest of first round picks are spent year after year after year trying to find them that end up VERY much being busts.

A second, and a third or fourth pick is far less than he's worth IMO. Even with McNabb's age (which I think that he could potentially play for five more years).

I think that the Eagles are crazy as well going with Kolb over McNabb. I understand that Kolb has shown ability in limited action as well as potential. But you are replacing freaking Donovan McNabb here! Those are some massive shoes to fill in Philly. Will Kolb make people forget McNabb? I have serious doubts. For every Rogers replacing Favre, there are three backups who fizzles out (and even Rogers still has to prove still IMO, I don't make judgement after one season).

I have been critical of McNabb in the past. I still think that he relies on scrambling ability for defences to break down at times. But he has been a very good QB over 11 years in the NFL, not an easy thing to find. He's a definite upgrade for Washington in the toughest position in the league. And time will tell, but I think that his moving on will be a downgrade for Philly at that same position.

I agree with you to a point, but I have come to trust the Eagles decisions with personel. They have made one mistake in the Reid era when letting go of an aging player (not that 33 is old for a QB, but 11 years is a long time to play), and that was Brian Dawking. Pretty much every other player thay have let go has not done much after leaving. I also trust Reid when it comes to QBs, he was a huge part in getting Favres career going, and drafted Mcnabb under heavy criticism. So I am willing to trust him with Kolb.

I think they backed themselves in a corner and took a trade where they did not get equal value. They shopped Mcnabb, and there was not as much interest as they though there would be. So they had to take an offer from Wash. that was not as good a deal as they thought they would get. Keep in mind all 3 QB's are free agents after this year, and there may not be football next year. They had to pick one, and the choose the younger. Hard to fault it.

I have been and still am a huge Mcnabb fan. But he was limited in what he could do. The Eagles did not run a lot of motion, and rarely changed formations at the line. Mcnabb rarely used audibles. All of these things he just was not comfortable doing, but are staples of the WCO. He could hardly throw a slant. He also is terrible in 2 minute drills...maybe the worse QB I have ever seen. Despite all this, he has had a border line hall of Fame career. He may have an awesome season under Shanahan. I thought Arizona should have taken him...in that offense I think he could be a MVP.

As for Rodgers...he is for real. He has not had one, but 2 really good seasons. Both years he threw for more than 4000 yards, and better than 2-1 Td to Int ratio. Well over 60% passing both seasons also. Last year was one of the better QB performances I have ever seen, with how bad the line played and the season he had. 30 Tds and only 7 Ints is absolutely playing lights out. He is also the best rushing QB in football right now.

[md1198p]

I think McNabb is a choker and the Eagles wouldn't win a SB with him. So regardless of whether Kolb (or Vick) are better/worse, it's really a matter of whether they are solid enough to lead the team to a SB. I don't know anything about Kolb, but I know when he was starting I always bet against the Eagles in my weekly pools.

I would not call him a choker, but my feeling is after watching for 11 years...if he was going to win a ring with Philly he would have by now with the teams they have had.

[md1198p]

Wow...quote from Dmacs press conference...probably wanted to say this for years.

''I know a bunch of you coming from Philly dont know about running the ball''

I have been saying this for years. I have always wondered how well he could play in an offense that runs the ball a lot. I think with the way he throws the deep ball play action passes over the top of the defense would be very effective. Will probably find out now, with Shanahan coaching him.

[Spank_Me_Hard]

I agree with you to a point, but I have come to trust the Eagles decisions with personel. They have made one mistake in the Reid era when letting go of an aging player (not that 33 is old for a QB, but 11 years is a long time to play), and that was Brian Dawking.

The Eagles are good at making personel decisions. I think that their sucess in recent years is proof of that. A team just isn't sucessful making bad personel decisions. I agree with you on this point.

But I would also point out that the players that they let go are not QBs either. QBs are really different than any other position. It is so excruciatingly hard to find a quality one. To the point where when you have a quality one, I think that you have to do absolutely everything possible to keep them. And the Eagles just let a VERY good one go.

So I most definitely fault them in this trade.

Keep in mind all 3 QB's are free agents after this year, and there may not be football next year. They had to pick one, and the choose the younger. Hard to fault it.

They could not sign any to an extension before their contracts ran out?

Despite all this, he has had a border line hall of Fame career. He may have an awesome season under Shanahan.

I thinlk that he will have.

And while Washingtons receivers are pretty horrid (with the exception of Moss at times, and Cooley), I seem to remember McNabb doing just fine when the Eagles receivers were the likes of Thrash, Pinkton, and "FredEx".

Shannahan likes to run the ball. I am not sure that Portis is done. And it looks like they picked up Larry Johnson... also whom I'm not convinced is done. The real question to me in fixing their offense is the offensive line. Good thing that McNabb is a good scrambler.

As for Rodgers...he is for real. He has not had one, but 2 really good seasons. Both years he threw for more than 4000 yards, and better than 2-1 Td to Int ratio. Well over 60% passing both seasons also. Last year was one of the better QB performances I have ever seen, with how bad the line played and the season he had. 30 Tds and only 7 Ints is absolutely playing lights out. He is also the best rushing QB in football right now.

Yea. My bad memory. Had forgotten that Favre had spent a season in NY and Rodgers had a good season that one as well. Two consequtive good seasons = legit in my mind.

[md1198p]

The Eagles are good at making personel decisions. I think that their sucess in recent years is proof of that. A team just isn't sucessful making bad personel decisions. I agree with you on this point.

But I would also point out that the players that they let go are not QBs either. QBs are really different than any other position. It is so excruciatingly hard to find a quality one. To the point where when you have a quality one, I think that you have to do absolutely everything possible to keep them. And the Eagles just let a VERY good one go.

So I most definitely fault them in this trade.



They could not sign any to an extension before their contracts ran out?



I thinlk that he will have.

And while Washingtons receivers are pretty horrid (with the exception of Moss at times, and Cooley), I seem to remember McNabb doing just fine when the Eagles receivers were the likes of Thrash, Pinkton, and "FredEx".

Shannahan likes to run the ball. I am not sure that Portis is done. And it looks like they picked up Larry Johnson... also whom I'm not convinced is done. The real question to me in fixing their offense is the offensive line. Good thing that McNabb is a good scrambler.



Yea. My bad memory. Had forgotten that Favre had spent a season in NY and Rodgers had a good season that one as well. Two consequtive good seasons = legit in my mind.

To respond the first 2 replies with one answer...yes they could. But they were probably not going to extend 2 of them (Vick being the odd man out IMO). And because of the wacky rules this year, they can only give a 33% pay raise. For Kolb that would be nothing, he makes like 500,000 grand. Now, knowing all this, and the fact there is a high probability there will be no football in 2011, how can you extend Mcnabb? He will be almost 36 going into 2012. Kolb will be 28. Big difference. Now, to me, looking at all the holes on Phillies defense, I think they realize they have little chance of going deep into the playoffs this year. So they decided to go with the younger QB.

[md1198p]

As far as Mcnabb in Wash, I think the Eagles did what they thought was best for their situation. Mcnabb has a good chance to succeed in Washington, but keep in mind this was a 4-12 team. Besides the offensive line and receiver questions, they are changing to a 3-4 defense. Its not uncommon for a team to take 1-2 seasons to successfully make that change. They don't have a true nose tackle, the most important part of that scheme. The running backs are old and beat up....you may not think the are done, but history says otherwise. Mcnabb will improve them a lot, but they have a lot of holes.

Edit: Also, the Skins only have 4 picks this year, and its considered one of the deeper drafts in a long time. After picking 4th overall, they don't pick again until the 4th round (103 overall).

[Snakespy]

I trust good old Shanahan to turn the Skins around, but like said it may take a few years and a ton of changes.

I'm still pissed about the whole Shanahan thing. Stuck with this stupid Mcdaniels retard.

[r'aggro]

I can't believe the Jets got Holmes for a fifth!

Also can't believe Seattle didn't simply outbid them for him. I guess Jeremy Bates *really* wants Brandon Marshall here, but he's going to cost a lot more.

Edit: nevermind, didn't know about Holmes' woman-beating ways.

[md1198p]

I can't believe the Jets got Holmes for a fifth!

Also can't believe Seattle didn't simply outbid them for him. I guess Jeremy Bates *really* wants Brandon Marshall here, but he's going to cost a lot more.

Edit: nevermind, didn't know about Holmes' woman-beating ways.

Yeah, Holmes is a good player, but he is suspended for the first 4 games. I still like the agressivness by Ryan. He just puts his head down and goes for it. I have really enjoyed watching them play and paying attention to all the things going on with the Jets the past year and a half.

[Spank_Me_Hard]

Brandon Marshall to the 'Phins for a 2nd this year and another next.

Am happy with that. A good value for a proven commodity... one of the best in the league.