The Official NFL Thread

[md1198p]

Doesn't appear that you've noticed, but hockey is actually quite popular up in your neck of the woods...

Down south in places like New Mexico? Um, yea... not so much. But c'est la vie.

Don't even get me started on international popularity of the two sports.

So popular the local team (Devils) could not sell out playoff games. Yeah, ok. And don't get me started on TV ratings.

But whatever, way off topic.

[r'aggro]

Flyers games sell out routinely, and I thought (Spanks might have too) that you lived in Philly.
edit: just saying, the Devils have never had good attendance and aren't indicative of how other teams are doing. NJ has the misfortune of being just a few miles from the Rangers.

I actually turned my back on the nba in the mid 90's. And without the Sonics I'm never going back.

[MrDigital]

Don't even get me started on international popularity of the two sports.

Not to pick nits, but at one point about a decade ago I read an article about how basketball was quickly overtaking soccer as the world's most popular sport. They are both incredibly cheap to play. Hockey is only popular in northern climates and/or where rich people live.

[ajwest]

And yet that doesn't take into account his:

a) Switching the ball into the hand closest to the opponent. What was his exact reason for that again?

b) His running along the edge of the goal line, and then swerving slightly to be out around the two yard line for a stride or two. What was his exact reason for that again?

Neither of those two actions are intuitive with "running out the clock". He went out of his way to do both.

Nevermind I heard today that he admitted that he was rubbing it in the other team's faces.

Make up an excuse for that.

The ball switching, who knows, maybe he thought he would show off his technical abilities? (Having godly speed isn't terribly technical IMO) Though if you remember it was near the end of the year, he swerved like that to eat up time so it read 0:00.
I've done that in Madden sometimes when theres <10 seconds left and its a broken TD, that isn't showy in my opinion.

I didn't like Chad Johnson's stupid stuff, he wasn't funny and Collingsworth only protected him because hes an idiot, Bungals homer and on-top of that, I would be a better commentator than that idiot [Collingsworth] but that's another story and off-topic.

He admitted rubbing it in? I ain't found a NFL.com story on this (yet) but if he was that's low class. I like DeSean, hes maturing as a WR but hes got the T.O. syndrome I think. That's basically "I know I'm great, I know I'm better than you (the DB) and watch me beat you all day". I don't think Philly played the Jets last year but I wish they did, Revis was a darn good DB last year, this year hes been up/down.
Revis struggles with Andre Johnson/Mike Wallace types, and Jackson isn't the great route runner Wes Welker is and Revis eats people like that for breakfeast.

Another side note, I think the Colts will get a Wild Card and travel to the Patriots in their first game. New England in the snow seems to be Indys problem since you need that Power-Run game which the Colts most of the time can't stop.

Lastly, whose your MVP? I have to go with Rivers (albiet I think hes a smug SOB) and Vick gets comeback player of the year. If Vick goes next year like he did this year, he'll get MVP. Brady has played lights out but he's got help from his D (sometimes) and hes got Welker, Hernandez/Gronkowski which is more than you can say for Rivers with injuries across the WR/TE positions.

[Spank_Me_Hard]

The ball switching, who knows, maybe he thought he would show off his technical abilities? (Having godly speed isn't terribly technical IMO) Though if you remember it was near the end of the year, he swerved like that to eat up time so it read 0:00.
I've done that in Madden sometimes when theres <10 seconds left and its a broken TD, that isn't showy in my opinion.

I can't see that there is any rationale for Jackson showing off his "ball switching" skills at the end of the game. That just plain doesn't make any sense. Switching the ball to the side that has an opposing player takes on more risk. Completely uselessly. It's basic football 101.

There really only is one rational reason why a player would do that in that situation.

Also, regarding the time... he swerved out to around the 2 yard line and then immediately went into the endzone. Long before he actually reached the sideline, and well before he was under threat of being tackled. If he was REALLY concerned about milking the clock for every last second, he would have continued as long as possible along the goal line before going in. He didn't. Again, non intuitive for the defense of his actions.

Granted everything that he did on that play, there is one motive that by far outweighs every other motive that he could have possibly had. And that is that he was rubbing it in the face of the other team.

Had he spiked the ball after the TD, or did anything else remotely "normal" to celebrate, I would not have had any issue with it.

But it should really be crystal clear to any twit why he did what he did.

There really are no other explanations that can be used to defend his actions.

He admitted rubbing it in? I ain't found a NFL.com story on this (yet) but if he was that's low class. I like DeSean, hes maturing as a WR but hes got the T.O. syndrome I think. That's basically "I know I'm great, I know I'm better than you (the DB) and watch me beat you all day".

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...delphia_Eagles

There has been some question about whether DeSean Jackson’s decision to run parallel to the goal-line on the game-winning final play in the Giants-Eagles game Sunday was another patented Jackson taunt or a smart ploy to ensure that the clock would run all the way out. The answer, as it turns out, is both.

"I was trying to think about doing something crazy, but I just kind of kept it clean. I just wanted to make sure the clock was ran out and don't give them no time to go back out there and hopefully score on us," Jackson told Jeff McClane of the Philadelphia Inquirer. "I looked up and there was zero seconds left so I was like, 'let me see what else I have in mind.' But from there I just ran into the end zone, man."

Andy Reid probably would have preferred Jackson to say he was just making sure the clock read zeroes; the head coach has made no bones about his disenchantment with Jackson’s TD celebrations (especially the preemptive TD celebrations).

And:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...urn=nfl-294973

Jackson wasn't celebrating his touchdown as much as he was rubbing the Cowboys' noses in it.

That'll never happen again, honestly[/I][/B]," Jackson told Andrea Kramer after the game. A few sentences later he said he didn't care about any fines and would keep doing what he's doing on the field.

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Jackson, and Reid both seem to pretty much admit that it was at the very least in part a taunt.

And I still don't fully buy the "running out the clock" arguement. On the replay, the clock strikes zeros right about just as he reaches the endzone. I could see if he swerved to run along the goal line, looked up quickly to verify it, then ducked in... but he didn't do that. He continued running for a while, switched the ball to the other hand, and swerved out to the two yard line before going in for the score. Quite long after the fact that he would have noticed the clock at zeroes.

Besides, we're also talking about a guy who apparently has a known history of taunting. His actions in the past seem to indicate that this is relatively normal behaviour for him.

As per TO, his diva attitude isn't directed to solely the corners trying to cover him. It also is directed to fellow players (attacking his QBs), coaches, team management, and owners.

That goes far beyond the confidence of thinking that he is a great player who can beat any DB. It's in the realm of cancerous, and more than a few players and organizations recognize him as such.

TO's play this year has been surprisingly pretty good. Based off it alone, the Bengals would probably like to have him back next year. But his attitude, as with near everywhere else that he has played almost guarantee that the team will view him as a net negative to the team.

[Snakespy]

OK. HOW IN THE HELL IS IT A BAD THING HE SHOWED OFF A LITTLE BIT AFTER THAT INCREDIBLE RETURN? I personally don't give a flying f***k if it was running out the clock or showing off a bit. He deserves to have a few seconds of being ecstatic of what he just did. Nothing else to say here as somehow the NFL thread is coming to be a nit-pick on what each of us has to say instead of having a good time.

[ajwest]

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Jackson, and Reid both seem to pretty much admit that it was at the very least in part a taunt.

And I still don't fully buy the "running out the clock" arguement. On the replay, the clock strikes zeros right about just as he reaches the endzone. I could see if he swerved to run along the goal line, looked up quickly to verify it, then ducked in... but he didn't do that. He continued running for a while, switched the ball to the other hand, and swerved out to the two yard line before going in for the score. Quite long after the fact that he would have noticed the clock at zeroes.

I completely agree, don't get me wrong; Im somewhat iffy about his actions though now I have to say its very untasteful admitting you taunted folks. Lack of respect?
It does look like I was making excuses, but consider if null, since he admitted to the act after the fact. If he was some 1 off special teamer who just got supremely lucky.. I'd kick him from the team to send a message but I doubt you could kick you #1/#2 WR for something minor-ish as this, it'll blow over after someone else does something nuts.

Besides, we're also talking about a guy who apparently has a known history of taunting. His actions in the past seem to indicate that this is relatively normal behaviour for him.

Im sorry, I never followed his Cali career. I guess over a time-frame, hes building up a certain type of reputation of who he is. Though 2 NFL incidents I would say, hardly denotes a pattern of taunting, I admit 2 incidents in (2 years? Maybe 3) I would chalk upto being young and lack of mentoring in how to carry himself in public is the issue and over time with the right personnel (hire Jerry Rice? ha) he can put this behind himself.

As per TO, his diva attitude isn't directed to solely the corners trying to cover him. It also is directed to fellow players (attacking his QBs), coaches, team management, and owners.

That goes far beyond the confidence of thinking that he is a great player who can beat any DB. It's in the realm of cancerous, and more than a few players and organizations recognize him as such.

TO's play this year has been surprisingly pretty good. Based off it alone, the Bengals would probably like to have him back next year. But his attitude, as with near everywhere else that he has played almost guarantee that the team will view him as a net negative to the team.

I loved T.O. at SF (dad was a major 49ers fan) and when he chose to attack McNabb and Garcia I lost respect for him. Though it's not like I follow his twitter (Oh God, I hate twitter) so I never bothered keeping tabs on him. I judge a football player for what he says at NFL-related things and on the field, and hes got *great* stats, but overall his teams havn't always achieve success.

SF basically imploded after Garcia and T.O. left (Rice probably hurt the most) and havn't recovered even in the (probably) worst NFL division at the moment. I don't mind the smack talk between Revis/T.O. its somewhat fun but I guess its fun until a A.Johnson/Finnegan moment.
The problem with T.O. as I see it, you need a "semi-productive" WR for a year to cover a lost starter then hes your man I suppose but nobody (except a few maybe teams, Oakland? Cleveland?) will sign him past 1 year contracts.

NFL organizations will hire not-so-stellar guys. Donte Stallworth to Baltimore, what he did isn't positive. We know about Vick, but Philly absorbed this and they're winning now and currently the gambles payed off. Stallworths somewhat neutral, I've only seen 3 Ravens games - you dont get much choice here - and hes been a solid backup/rotational guy in those games which is better than him repeating his past mistakes.

RE: Snakespy.
The return nobody (I assume) disputes was awesome, I saw the game live and when he picked up the fumble I was already yelling (I dislike the Giants.. don't know why..) for him to score.
The main issue - and now Im with the Spank_Me_Hard boat (wow that sounds bad) in that admitting you taunted another person isnt cool. Hes a professional (athlete) and should conduct himself whilst in public as one, he didn't when he goes around taunting players/teams/coaches etc. You can have a great time, scoring the TD, not taunting folks.

[md1198p]

Again...don't care. Its was the biggest game of the year, a division rival, and he just did something no one has ever done before (walk off punt return). He is a very cocky player, and I would think a 160lb NFL player would need to be cocky in order be out there. Also, I am sure he hears more trash talking than most players because of his small size.

[Spank_Me_Hard]

Again...don't care. Its was the biggest game of the year, a division rival, and he just did something no one has ever done before (walk off punt return). He is a very cocky player, and I would think a 160lb NFL player would need to be cocky in order be out there. Also, I am sure he hears more trash talking than most players because of his small size.

Jerry Rice kind of played a lot of big games and never did anything like that.

There is a good, and acceptable way for a NFL player to celebrate and one that is disrespectful to other players and in fact to the game of football.

95% of the league understands and respects this. Apparently ghetto DeSean Jackson doesn't.

And, as the saying goes, there's a fine line between self confident and obnoxious. There's beejn a lot of other smallish players in the league who handle themselves better than Jackson does.

OK. HOW IN THE HELL IS IT A BAD THING HE SHOWED OFF A LITTLE BIT AFTER THAT INCREDIBLE RETURN? I personally don't give a flying f***k if it was running out the clock or showing off a bit. He deserves to have a few seconds of being ecstatic of what he just did. Nothing else to say here as somehow the NFL thread is coming to be a nit-pick on what each of us has to say instead of having a good time.

Again, I have no issue with TD celebrations. The players are human... not robots.

But there is a world of difference between a "pre" TD celebration (as even his head coach seems to understand) and a celebration after the score.

Jackson's actions are the type of ghetto actions that hurt the NFL's image over time. Would hate to see the NFL become as ghetto as the NBA.

[md1198p]

Jerry Rice kind of played a lot of big games and never did anything like that.

There is a good, and acceptable way for a NFL player to celebrate and one that is disrespectful to other players and in fact to the game of football.

95&#37; of the league understands and respects this. Apparently ghetto DeSean Jackson doesn't.

And, as the saying goes, there's a fine line between self confident and obnoxious. There's beejn a lot of other smallish players in the league who handle themselves better than Jackson does.




Again, I have no issue with TD celebrations. The players are human... not robots.

But there is a world of difference between a "pre" TD celebration (as even his head coach seems to understand) and a celebration after the score.

Jackson's actions are the type of ghetto actions that hurt the NFL's image over time. Would hate to see the NFL become as ghetto as the NBA.

Yeah the difference is your not supposed to get penalized for anything before the TD. You can get penalized for stuff after. I am sure he knows that, maybe that has something to do with it.

Also, who cares what Jerry Rice did? Different people have different personalities. Some people are very "over the top", and others are very low key.

[Spank_Me_Hard]

Also, who cares what Jerry Rice did? Different people have different personalities. Some people are very "over the top", and others are very low key.

My point was that making a big play in a big game game doesn't justify acting like a primate.

Clear it up for you?

[ajwest]

My point was that making a big play in a big game game doesn't justify acting like a primate.

Clear it up for you?

LT (The NY Jet) use to when in SD always just handed the ball off to the Ref. When I played sports - soccer mostly - when I scored (and it was rare) I just ran back to position. People are just wired differently.

[md1198p]

My point was that making a big play in a big game game doesn't justify acting like a primate.

Clear it up for you?

I fail to see the correlation between celbrating and taunting, and a primate. Care to clear that up?

Your opinion is noted. I guess my opinion is I could care less what yours is. I don't expect every human being to act the same as Jerry Rice, because not everyone is Jerry Rice. My stance on the matter is I don't care what these guys do after they score. Even when someone does it against my team I find it funny. I play a lot of basketball, and have people talk trash to me all the time. That also does not bother me.

Also find it funny you ignored my point about how stuff before the score cannot be penalized, and the penalty can only occur for something after the score.

[md1198p]

Gonna attempt to salvage this thread:

[Spank_Me_Hard]

I fail to see the correlation between celbrating and taunting, and a primate. Care to clear that up?

One is acceptable behaviour, the other two are not.

Disrespectful to the other players and in fact to the integrity of the game.

Your opinion is noted. I guess my opinion is I could care less what yours is. I don't expect every human being to act the same as Jerry Rice, because not everyone is Jerry Rice.

I agree. And different players will also celebrate differently. A spiking of the ball is pretty typical, but there are literally a zillion and one ways to celebrate scoring a TD that don't degrade the game or other players. Had Jackson pulled a TO and done something new like TO did when he pulled out the sharpie I could have cared less.

But he didn't. He actually taunted before the TD was scored (and hence, as you say... no penalty). This behaviour, and similar the he's done in the past indicates that he doesn't respect other players or the game itself. Hence, he's a primate.

I play a lot of basketball, and have people talk trash to me all the time. That also does not bother me.

Hmm. Do tell.

Maybe your so used to it in basketball that you don't care if it enters football as well. If so, I think that many football purists would disagree. Again, I don't want to see football "ghetto-ized" as basketball has become.

Also find it funny you ignored my point about how stuff before the score cannot be penalized, and the penalty can only occur for something after the score.

Thought about it, but decided not. But since you've gone through the lengths to call me out on it, let me clear it up for you:

Totally agree.

As the rules are written, you are absolutely correct.

Didn't think that I needed to comment really but there it is for you. Happy?

I will say this though: If pre-TD taunting start becoming common (or even just from a single isolated incident like this), I can see the team owners getting together to stop this. Have the officials start penalizing pre-TD taunting to clean up the game. In fact, my money is on that it will happen at some point. Probably sooner than later.

They have a valuable product that they don't want to see cheapened and tarnished.