On Tuesday at 1pm EST on Spike TV they are going

[Timman_24]

I'm not anti-used sales in general. For console games there has been a major focus for publishers to stymy the used market using tactics that end up affecting the quality of games. Like I said before, preorder dlc, multiplayer passes, and cramming multiplayer into single player games in an effort to delay trade ins have all run rampant throughout the last gen.

As for philosophy, I've mostly thought of games as consumables and not objects the same as cars, clothes, etc. Legally, we don't "own" a game, but "own" a right to access the game. This access was linked to the physical medium in the previous gen. The access is now being switched to the account in which the game was linked to.

I guess we will see how it pans out. I don't really care too much either way.

[taggart6]

I can see a difference between content versus a more physical good. When you resell a used car you are selling a car that is physically degraded. When you sell a used game, the content has been preserved perfectly. Yes the disc might wear but the content is really what you want.

However, I see no difference between games and other media and yet we don't see nearly the same amount of anger toward used movie, tv and book sales as we do with used games.

[Astros Fan]

It's been pretty lonely since I switched to PS3 a year ago...can't wait to see you guys on PS4

[Timman_24]

I can see a difference between content versus a more physical good. When you resell a used car you are selling a car that is physically degraded. When you sell a used game, the content has been preserved perfectly. Yes the disc might wear but the content is really what you want.

However, I see no difference between games and other media and yet we don't see nearly the same amount of anger toward used movie, tv and book sales as we do with used games.

Maybe I missed it, but what anger are you talking about? The industry's focus on trying to eliminate it, the community's backlash, or the gamers that dislike used games?

[Timman_24]

It's been pretty lonely since I switched to PS3 a year ago...can't wait to see you guys on PS4

Right now I'm leaning more toward the PS4 mainly because of its game focus and the much more powerful GPU. From what Anandtech wrote about the hardware differences, the PS4's GPU is 50% more powerful. Its not like the Cell either, which was much harder to juice that extra potential from. These are identical other than the PS4 having more potency. I think the Xbox One has a lot of nice entertainment features, its just that I don't care about many of them.

...And if netflix is behind a paywall again...

[taggart6]

Maybe I missed it, but what anger are you talking about? The industry's focus on trying to eliminate it, the community's backlash, or the gamers that dislike used games?

ABy anger I mean the general gaming industries intense dislike of it. Used sales seems much more vocalized regarding games then with film, tv, books, comics, and nearly all other forms of media.

[Timman_24]

ABy anger I mean the general gaming industries intense dislike of it. Used sales seems much more vocalized regarding games then with film, tv, books, comics, and nearly all other forms of media.

That's true. Maybe it has something to do with the revenue streams. Game money is all made on the sale of the game. Movies get a major source from ticket sales, toys, and merchandising, much like music sales as well.

I'd say piracy is a bigger issue than used sales in the movies and music industry. I haven't seen a used music store in years.

They haven't needed to be very vocal about it. Fighting piracy kills the used market as a casuality of war. With iTunes, Netflix, Spotify, etc, licensing agreements and digital sales probably make much more now than physical disk sales.

[taggart6]

It is all about revenue and I think its a horrible misconception for the gaming industry to view all piracy and used games transactions as lost sales. That's simply not true and that false belief results in poor policy and planning on the industry side of the gaming community.

Piracy and used sales is an issue of cost and not one of convenience or desire. It is far easier to purchase a game then have to jump through the hoops of getting a cracked version to work or locating a used copy within a particular time frame. The issue has and always will be cost and what someone is willing to or can even afford to pay. Sanctions and restrictions against piracy and used sales will not magically give pirates and used buyers the money to purchase new and subsequently raise the profit margins of the gaming industry to a higher sustainable baseline.

Preventing used sales and piracy isn't going to fix the revenue problems of the gaming industry. The problems are companies making risky gambles on gimmicks that don't work or hedging their bets on bad choices that alienate and aggravate customers. Piracy and used games have become an excuse for an industry that is killing itself from the inside out because of poor leadership and poor planning.

Jason Schreier from Kotaku has a post that I think does a good job echoing my sentiment: http://kotaku.com/used-games-arent-t...ndus-509593780

[Timman_24]

The problem with blaming it all on the companies for making choices for games that don't end up working out is that that point of view would cause companies to only take the safe bet. That means no new IP, no risks like Farcry Blood Dragon, and a very boring investment in future games. Piracy and used sales are surely not the only reason, but there are people out there that pirate or buy used games that could afford new. The magnitude of that is beyond what I could try to estimate, but obviously the industry thinks its a size able enough issue to possibly take severe backlash over. The next few months will be interesting.

[taggart6]

The problem with blaming it all on the companies for making choices for games that don't end up working out is that that point of view would cause companies to only take the safe bet. That means no new IP, no risks like Farcry Blood Dragon, and a very boring investment in future games. Piracy and used sales are surely not the only reason, but there are people out there that pirate or buy used games that could afford new. The magnitude of that is beyond what I could try to estimate, but obviously the industry thinks its a size able enough issue to possibly take severe backlash over. The next few months will be interesting.

I disagree. Potential sales lost to piracy and used games cannot make up for poor products that people don't want to buy and that are priced at a point people will not pay. The industry is looking for a scapegoat rather then take a good hard look at itself. It's easier to generalize that all people steal and shop for lower priced items because they want to rather then because they simply can't afford to pay for things they don't think are worth it. People pirate and purchase used because of cost. They rather go through the inconvenience of managing hacks and waiting for a used copy then purchase new. Even the issue of affordability is a moot people if people with the means to purchase new still don't feel the product justifies the cost. Its a cost vs product worth issue pure ans simple.

Amazon and Steam have already shown that competitive pricing abd heavily discounted sales is both a successful and profitable way to combat piracy and used games. Yet, the console market still hasn't adopted those practices and won't until they are forced too. I'm curious to know why that is and what prevents them from doing. My guess is that console hardware ties you to only a single provider of digital media content. That lack of competition basically gives the provider free reign to set what ever price they want as long as they can get you to buy their console.

Either way, the console devs are free to do what ever they want. They owe us nothing. However, I have the freedom to support my stance by not participating when I have a more cost effective and rewarding option with my PC.

[dyne]

tumblr_mngt451hP31qeablwo1_250.jpg

Thought this was funny.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Kinect will randomly turn on for an instant to take a snapshot of it's surroundings and identify brands that you use. MS could make a nice chunk of change off of essentially doing nothing. They can then plaster your UI with more specific ads even though you're paying a yearly sub that's supposed to already offset the operating costs.

*weird, I linked from my computer and it actually made it a link*

[taggart6]

Yathzee pretty much hit the nail on the head in his latest ZP:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...n-Buyers-Guide

[Timman_24]

I disagree. Potential sales lost to piracy and used games cannot make up for poor products that people don't want to buy and that are priced at a point people will not pay. The industry is looking for a scapegoat rather then take a good hard look at itself. It's easier to generalize that all people steal and shop for lower priced items because they want to rather then because they simply can't afford to pay for things they don't think are worth it. People pirate and purchase used because of cost. They rather go through the inconvenience of managing hacks and waiting for a used copy then purchase new. Even the issue of affordability is a moot people if people with the means to purchase new still don't feel the product justifies the cost. Its a cost vs product worth issue pure ans simple.

Amazon and Steam have already shown that competitive pricing abd heavily discounted sales is both a successful and profitable way to combat piracy and used games. Yet, the console market still hasn't adopted those practices and won't until they are forced too. I'm curious to know why that is and what prevents them from doing. My guess is that console hardware ties you to only a single provider of digital media content. That lack of competition basically gives the provider free reign to set what ever price they want as long as they can get you to buy their console.

Either way, the console devs are free to do what ever they want. They owe us nothing. However, I have the freedom to support my stance by not participating when I have a more cost effective and rewarding option with my PC.

I totally agree with your assertions. I never said piracy or used sales were the only reason, just a part of the problem. However, your second paragraph is coming to fruition right now. MS and Sony couldn't instantly switch to digital like Steam could because they had immovable policies tied to the last gen of consoles. With the new gen we are seeing them go to the Steam model, to combat piracy and used sales much like Steam did. However, the unknown is whether or not they will go all the way and attack the core issue that you described. A 6 hour single player game can not be $60 anymore, it needs to be $15. There needs to be prices that better reflect demand. $60 for two months, then $39.99, then blow out sales like Steam. This must be put into place or the console market can die in a corner for all I care.

BTW, what console are you leaning towards at the moment? The Kinetic always-on issue has me very turned off. I don't want a direct feed of my living room running 24/7.

[taggart6]

Nothing so far. I don't know enough about the PS4 to form an idea, the Xbox1 bothers me on a number of different levels, and the WiiU game offering is pretty weak IMHO. I also have a massive backlog of current games so I'm not motivated to purchase anything new other then a PC.

If I had to bet on it, I might pick up the WiiU down the road if the library improves. I hear they are making a HD Xenoblade remake for WiiU which would be amazing. If more games like that, the Last story, Monster Hunter, new Zelda, Metroid, and etc come out, then I might bite.

I'm actually considering building a low end gaming HTPC when I upgrade my main rig in the next 2-3 months. I have a bunch of controller based PC games that would play great on my future 71 inch plasma.

[Timman_24]

I recently swapped cases and built a watercooled ITX build with a 3570k and a 7970. Its small enough to easily tote between my desk and living room although it mostly stays in the living room. I went a little over board and bought a Case Labs Mercury S3 case and did copper tubing...