Kingston HyperX and 8RDA+ Issues Update Thread

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 10:47 PM

I didn't wanna to keep updating three separate threads, so I made a new unified one and I'll post findings and pertinent information here from now on.

Before you go and start posting 'What issues it works fine', this specifically deals with the 512mb dimms. I know the majority, if not all of you haven't had any problems with the 256mb dimms and even some of you with the 512mb dimms have had better results. So again, this deals with the 512mb dimms.

UPDATE: There are some people with single dimms that are having the same ~180mhz cap issue as well.

I'm posting everything in the order it was originally posted, so scroll through and read everything if you're interested in the issue, the most recent info will be at the bottom. For other sources, please see the Epox board @ amdforums.com and @ aoaforums.com as well (I'll link to those threads when I get around to it).

Most of the info for this thread has been gathered from these threads, so it's now unified:

http://sharkyforums.com/showthread.p...hreadid=188723
http://sharkyforums.com/showthread.p...hreadid=188622
http://sharkyforums.com/showthread.p...hreadid=188911
http://sharkyforums.com/showthread.p...hreadid=188565

And of course, thanks to everybody who's replied and supplied info

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 10:48 PM

Here's a copy of the email I sent to Epox usa, hopefully they'll have some insight. If I get a "Get different ram" or "180 is already higher than it's supposed to be" or "Nothings wrong", I'm gonna be so pissed man...

Myself and quite a few others at amdforums.com, sharkyforums.com, and aoaforums.com, are having problems specifically with Kingston HyperX PC3XXX 512mb modules (the 256mb modules seem unaffected). The 512mb PC3XXX (I have PC3500, for example) seems to be incompatible with the 8RDA+ at any FSB higher than 180-185mhz with the memory at 100%. This is regardless of timings, Vdimm, Multiplier on the processor, Vcore, etc... No matter what I try, I cannot get above 180mhz, not even 181mhz. Everyone else with the 512mb Kingston HyperX seems to be in the same boat. To test my board and processor, I lowered the multiplier very low to 8 to make sure that wasn't the issue. I then set the ram to 66% of the FSB to make sure I didn't have a faulty motherboard. With these settings, I was able to boot up Windows XP no problems at 220mhz+ on the FSB. Before, anything higher than 180mhz resulted in BSOD's, crashes, BIOS freezing and having to clear CMOS with the jumper (the INSERT + DEL key would not even work). Because the board could do 220mhz FSB easily with the memory at 66%, that seems to suggest that board itself is ok and heat on the Northbridge is not an issue. The basically leaves compatibility with the ram. Can you PLEASE check into this for us, we would all be ETERNALLY GRATEFUL as we all love the 8RDA+, it's just ashame that the ram is not running properly (As a note, myself I have tried 4 different sticks of Kingston HyperX PC3500 512mb to no avail. I placed them in all possible slots, in all possible configurations, and tested each stick individually, so that would seem to suggest that the ram is ok and not faulty).

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 10:49 PM

Email to Kingston (As of the time of this post, they've yet to reply).

I've also gone ahead and emailed Kingston too to see what they say (I'm sure they'll just say it's the mobo and not our problem, but who knows):

http://www.kingston.com/support/newtechsupportform.asp

I have two sticks of 512mb Kingston HyperX PC3500 (the newer Low Latency modules) and a Rev. 1.1 Epox 8RDA+ with bios 3402. The memory is rated to 216mhz (434mhz DDR), but the highest I can get the memory to run is 180mhz (360mhz DDR). This is with the FSB and memory synched. I've tried running the memory at 50% just to make sure the motherboard would run 216mhz FSB and it went as high as 230mhz! I've spent a great deal testing and narrowed it down to the ram. No matter what timings, dimm slot configuration, 1 or 2 sticks, Vdimm voltage, CPU Multiplier, Vcore, any adjustment what so ever, the absolut highest it will go is 180mhz. Alot of other people on sharkyforums.com, amdforums.com, and aoaforums.com are having similar issues. Could you please take a look at a possible incompatibility issue with this ram and the Epox 8RDA+? Most people, including myself, are having issues with the 512mb sticks in PC3500 and PC3200 flavor (the 256mb sticks seem to run fine, well over 200mhz).

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 10:51 PM

UPDATE:

Well Epox replied, pretty fast I'll give them that, but it's all stuff we've already tried. He says the board is rated to pc3200 which is 200mhz, but I'm saying we can't even get past ~180 with this, so that's what I'm emailing back.

Dear Jason,
We don't recommend overclocking, and the board has been tested and approve for supported up to PC3200 DDR memory module only, please check our website for the board SPEC. However if you are having problem try the below tips out (Run the memory at 3200), it may or may not resolve your issue, but, we recommend that you give it a shot.
1) Power off
2) Press and hold the INSERT key while applying power.
3) If the screen is shown release the INSERT key and enter the CMOS
4) Go into the bios and change the memory frequency from "AUTO" to "BY SPD" or "100%".
5) Retest.
Also try the following additional tips if PC3200 memory is not working. Memory Frequency = 100% Memory Timing = Expert
T(RAS) = 7
T(RCD) = 3
T(RP) = 3
CAS Latency = 2.5
Adjust the memory frequency above until you reach the resulting frequency
of 200MHz (for PC3200). http://web.epox.com/html/motherboard...RDAplus&lang=1

Best Regards,

My reply:

Thank you for your fast response. I've tried your suggestions and unfortuneatly, they didn't work. As you've said, the board is rated to 200mhz or PC3200, per the specifications. I would be satisfied IF we/myself could get to 200mhz, however we can only get to ~180mhz, which is SUB PC3200 speeds. So this is not overclocking the ram then. Being at 180mhz would actually be underclocking the ram and therefore things are not right. People using ram rated at PC3200 or better (including myself) are unable to to get to at least the rated speed for the ram, which is 200mhz. 180mhz < 200mhz. See what I mean? So again, there has to be an incompatibility issue with this ram and the 8RDA+. Please let me know what you think.

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 10:52 PM

UPDATE:

Epox emailed me back again today. They don't know if it's incompatibility or what, but he said he forwarded it on to "HQ" for review. See what that does (where did I put that rooleyes smilie... Hey, you never know). At least we're on the same page now. Now it's up to the rest of you guys to email them so they know that lots of people with kingston 512mb's are having this problem. Here's the reply:

Jason, Sorry we had some confusion on what you were trying to accomplish. I've emailed our HQ to see if they have any kind of resolution or if it's straight up incompatibility. We also can't discount it being on the Kingston side - something that was a bad batch or is fixed in a later production run of the chips.

My reply:

Hey thanks again. FYI I've emailed Kingston about it as well, but they haven't emailed me back yet, so shame on their tech support, kudos to yours Please let me know when you hear back from HQ.

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 10:54 PM

UPDATE:

Epox emailed me back again, said they would let me know when they hear anything. No new info, but it's nice to see good response from the tech support people. Just an FYI for everybody as to where we are at. Their reply:

Jason, As soon as we get any information, we'll keep you inform.

Best Regards,

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 10:57 PM

UPDATE:

FlapJacks reply from Epox:

"Well, I did e-mail Epox and got the stock response. Quite dissappointing actually and I am too tired to reply at the moment."
-FlapJacks

Thank you for your interest in EPoX products. Unfortunately overclocking issues are beyond the scope of items we can provide technical assistance for. Overclocking is done at the user's own risk. Overclocking has the potential to overheat processors, create stability issues and other problems not present during normal usage. We do not endorse or check the reliability of products with overclocking.

Thank you for your understanding.

Best Regards,

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 11:01 PM

UPDATE:

Here's the most email from Epox and my lengthy reply:

Could you give me some more detailed information on your configuration? Exact model type serial number of memory, successful memory timings, unsuccessful memory timings, other relevant BIOS settings (clock speed, voltages, etc), hardware configuration, etc?? HQ in Taiwan is going to get some memory and do more in-depth testing than we can do here.

Thanks!

My reply:

Sure, thanks for taking a look at this. Here's more info:

The label on each stick is the same and reads:

KHX3500/512
9905200-011.A00
1070861 - 2.5v CE
Assy in USA
Warranty void if removed

As far as successful and unsuccessful memory timings, 2-2-2-6 through
2-4-4-8 are successful with an FSB from 133mhz-180mhz, running in dual channel mode and memory being synched with the FSB at 100%. The memory will not function in dual channel mode and synched 100% at any timings above 180mhz. I've tried 2-2-2-6 through 2-4-4-8 at 181mhz+ FSB and none have worked successfully. Using memtest86, the memory fails at 181mhz with 100,000+ errors at those same timings.

As far as other relevant bios settings, I have the processor at the stock multiplier (13, it's an Athlon XP2100+ Tbred B, 1.6v) and I have raised the voltage on the Vcore to 1.8v (I have gone as high as 2.1v just to make sure the processor wasn't an issue). The highest achievable Multiplier/FSB combination I have achieved is 13x180 (2340mhz). For the memory Vdimm, I've tried 2.5v - 2.9v (highest allowed by the motherboard) and the same results have occurred. I've tried CPU Interface set in both the optimal and aggressive settings with the same results. The PCI and AGP buses are locked at both their respective stock frequencies and voltages. Processor temperature at full load peaks at 40 degrees Celsius and motherboard at 30 degrees Celsius, both well within the operating parameters set by their respective manufacturers.

If I set the memory to run at 66% of the FSB (so asynchronous), I can take the FSB well up and over 220mhz, so that seems to suggest that the board can handle a 200mhz+ FSB with no problem (So it doesn't seem the board is faulty and I realize it's only officially supported to 200mhz). If I set the FSB to 133mhz and then the memory to run at 150% of the FSB (so 200mhz for the ram), it fails again at any timings and voltages. It does work fine with those settings at 190mhz.

The main problem seems to be running the ram in dual channel mode AND synched to the FSB above 180mhz, regardless of voltages and timings. I have also tried 1 stick at a time and both sticks in each of the 3 dimm slots with the same settings and each stick has failed, regardless of settings, in any dimm slot orientation and combination.

The board is an Epox 8RDA+ Rev. 1.1 with the A1/C1 Crush 18D north bridge stepping of the NForce2 chipset and the A3 stepping of the south bridge. I've added a Vantec Copper Iceberq chipset cooler to the north bridge with Artic Silver Ceramique and the stock Epox north bridge heatsink moved to the south bridge, again with Artic Silver Ceramique. This should keep the chipset temperatures at appropriate levels. I'm currently using Bios 3402 with the board. With the 3305 bios, the ram could not do anything higher than 166mhz FSB, so it is an improvement.

I realize that at 180mhz, the FSB on the processor is overclocked. However, this doesn't seem to be an issue because the processor easily achieves an FSB of 220mhz+ when the FSB is not in synch with the ram (ram at 66% FSB as I've mentioned before). Since the board is officially rated and certified to run the new upcoming 200mhz (DDR400) FSB Athlons based on the Barton core, if someone were to use one of these new chips, it seems they would either have to lower their FSB to 180mhz or run their ram out of synch with the FSB, and that certainly doesn't seem right. I realize this is speculation at this point, but it does seem like a logical hypothesis to me. Just so we are on the same page, I also realize that the Epox board is officially only rated to support PC3200 memory (DDR400), which is obviously 200mhz. The fact is, though, the PC3500 that I have can't reach PC3200 speeds, regardless of timings and voltages and synched to the FSB. That definitely isn't right.

From talking with others on the internet at sharkyforums.com, amdforums.com, and aoaforums.com, the majority of people (practically all) are only having issues with the 512mb Kingston HyperX PC3xxx sticks in single and multiple stick configurations. The 256mb Kingston HyperX PC3xxx ram in single and multiple stick configurations seems unaffected.

Just an FYI, I've also emailed Kingston tech support to get their official word on compatibility at either DDR400 or DDR434 (in my case) with the 512mb sticks, but they haven't emailed me back yet (shame on them).

That's about all I can think to add as far as pertinent information. If you have any questions or can think of other information/settings I need to provide, of course email me back.

Thanks again for looking into this. Please also be aware that I am in the middle of an RMA to Kingston with the ram. I still have my original sticks because the RMA ram is on back order at the moment (I RMA'd initially because I assumed I had received faulty ram at first). If you need me to keep the original ram or anything like that, please let me know asap. I'm looking forward to hearing what HQ in Taiwan has to say. Thanks again Mr. Hutton.

Sincerely,

**Royal Oaks** · 04-30-2003, 11:30 PM

Normally I would say who cares, but this is good stuff. I haven't seen many people go this far, and you obviously are trying to get this resolved. This also shows just how great Epox's Tech Support people are. I mean geeze I signed off Sharky no more than 2 hours ago, and now you got this entire thread of stuff. Seriously, nice work Janko hopefully this does get resolved. I think you should also point out incompatibility issues with the Abit NF7-Sv2.0 board and the Hyper-X to the Epox people. That situation has been documented well before this, and I think you should mention this to them. It might help in getting a solution faster.

**janko10** · 04-30-2003, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by Royal Oaks
Normally I would say who cares, but this is good stuff. I haven't seen many people go this far, and you obviously are trying to get this resolved. This also shows just how great Epox's Tech Support people are. I mean geeze I signed off Sharky no more than 2 hours ago, and now you got this entire thread of stuff. Seriously, nice work Janko hopefully this does get resolved. I think you should also point out incompatibility issues with the Abit NF7-Sv2.0 board and the Hyper-X to the Epox people. That situation has been documented well before this, and I think you should mention this to them. It might help in getting a solution faster.

That's a good idea RO. I will in my next email to them. It could be a HyperX incompatibility with Nforce2 then since those boards are made by 2 different manufacturers. I dunno. I wish Kingston would get back to me, I think I'll email them again.

Edit: Spelling

**talldude** · 04-30-2003, 11:52 PM

Definitely seems to be a problem with the ram itself, not the mobo. I hope the fix can be as simple as a bios update, but I'm doubtful. Good stuff, keep the investigation rolling.

**Anachron** · 05-01-2003, 01:03 AM

I plan on getting the 8RDA+/HyperX combo. For now I don't plan on going over a FSB of 180, but with more demanding programs in the future I'd like to hit over 200 with the same setup.

So do you think that this issue will be resolved through a bios update, or should I go with different hardware?

**talldude** · 05-01-2003, 01:08 AM

If you're planning on gettin 512mb ram, it's a great combo because the 256mb sticks don't have the issue. Seems some of the 512mb sticks don't like the Nforce 2 chipset.

**kirkyg** · 05-01-2003, 10:45 AM

YES THEY DO...IT doesn't matter what kingston memory you use 2x256 512 sticks or 256 sticks your going to run into this problem if you run two sticks. The only people running high fsb's + synchronized ram are people that have only 1 memory stick in which defeats the huge gains you get from nforce2 DDR setup. Let me explain again since some of you seem to not read what i posted.

I had an A3 stepping Epox 8RDA+ with Kingston hyperX 3000 ram 2x256. The board ran great up to 200 fsb...i could get it to post synchronous @ up to 208 fsb but stability was in the 200-201 range. Ram seemed to have plenty of room to go though i did not mess with asynchronous. I ordered a new board from newegg hoping to get an A1 stepping board so i could get another 15+ out of the fsb stable. So i got just that. Put the board in I could not get it to POST at 200 fsb synchronized with ram (100%). I fell in the 180 mhz category. I didn't realize it yet as noone had posted problems so i rma'd the board. Got another A1 stepping same problem. So then i see all the crap popping up and now i've ordered New ram Crucial PC 3500 ram hopefully will solve this problem.

From my problems i can deduce this. ONLY the A1 stepping boards combined with hyperx 3000-3500 memory of ANY flavor will give you this "glitch" or "problem" or "incompatibility" (not sure what to call it). I will post back when i get my new memory in this coming monday and let everyone know if it solves the problem.

kirkyg

**Tekime** · 05-01-2003, 11:08 AM

I have an EPoX 8rda+ A1/C1 stepping and one 512MB HyperX PC3500 DIMM running at 200FSB synchronous, rock solid, for about two weeks now. Gone up to 220FSB synch stable, timings from 2-2-2-5 to 2-4-4-8. I have to run at 2.63v @ DDR400 to be stable. This RAM does not like aynch though, much slower and not as stable.

If you would like I can post some detail of my BIOS config when I get home (in about 6 hours, blech).

edit: Yes, I must say Janko good work! Sounds like your well on your way to getting a real answer. Hope you work these problems out.

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